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 Furyou Miko wrote:
Problem is, Swas, most people here grew up on the phrase "An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded".

I'll be honest I have never heard that phrase. But I live in a western farming country so...

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Problem is, Swas, most people here grew up on the phrase "An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded".

I'll be honest I have never heard that phrase. But I live in a western farming country so...

It's from Dawn of War. It's one of the things the Librarian says.

 Swastakowey wrote:
No but if snow White had a dwarf leader who killed off all the black dwarfs then was left with 7 white ones to mine the gold then it would be offensive. If horus heresy contained no mentioed religion until the cult situation then it would have been great in my opinion. After all a truly good leader would tolerate people's views not slaughter them until the rest obeys.
Im not blaming the book im blaming the people marketing the book at an audience who are too young to grasp it and take it how it is.
I never blamed the books.
Also you guys need to open your minds a bit, its easy to find book you agree with is fine for people to read because thats
easy.
I will say no more but as I said earlier a book marketed for kids should not contain issues like this.

Who said I agree with the books? Regardless, even if I did, that has nothing to do with the situation. My point was that if youre looking for something to be offended about, you will find it. In this case, the point of religion in 40K has nothing to do with what religion is wrong or right, if any at all. Youre looking for values that arent there. If I need to open my mind, youve got to be less easily offended.

Jollydevil wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:
No but if snow White had a dwarf leader who killed off all the black dwarfs then was left with 7 white ones to mine the gold then it would be offensive. If horus heresy contained no mentioed religion until the cult situation then it would have been great in my opinion. After all a truly good leader would tolerate people's views not slaughter them until the rest obeys.
Im not blaming the book im blaming the people marketing the book at an audience who are too young to grasp it and take it how it is.
I never blamed the books.
Also you guys need to open your minds a bit, its easy to find book you agree with is fine for people to read because thats
easy.
I will say no more but as I said earlier a book marketed for kids should not contain issues like this.

Who said I agree with the books? Regardless, even if I did, that has nothing to do with the situation. My point was that if youre looking for something to be offended about, you will find it. In this case, the point of religion in 40K has nothing to do with what religion is wrong or right, if any at all. Youre looking for values that arent there. If I need to open my mind, youve got to be less easily offended.

If you have read what im saying you'd no im concerned about what others think of it looking from the outside. I never said you agree with it but a lot of people who like the GW games(in my experience) do agree with it, so I was making a general point at that. Those values are there by the way, I havent even read them all and I know thats what it implies. Im not offended im just not into the ridicule of others through story, actions or anything. Except comedy because comedians are at least fair enough to make fun of everybody haha.

Also you have yet again missed my point. Its not about WHAT religion is right, it blatantly lumps them together into a big lot and effectively calls them backwards unintelligent people, a hindrance and so forth . Just look at why the emperor kills them off, and how he does it. That alone should ring alarm bells as to the intention of the author.

And foryou miko I havent really played that game haha.

 Swastakowey wrote:

Jollydevil wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:
No but if snow White had a dwarf leader who killed off all the black dwarfs then was left with 7 white ones to mine the gold then it would be offensive. If horus heresy contained no mentioed religion until the cult situation then it would have been great in my opinion. After all a truly good leader would tolerate people's views not slaughter them until the rest obeys.
Im not blaming the book im blaming the people marketing the book at an audience who are too young to grasp it and take it how it is.
I never blamed the books.
Also you guys need to open your minds a bit, its easy to find book you agree with is fine for people to read because thats
easy.
I will say no more but as I said earlier a book marketed for kids should not contain issues like this.

Who said I agree with the books? Regardless, even if I did, that has nothing to do with the situation. My point was that if youre looking for something to be offended about, you will find it. In this case, the point of religion in 40K has nothing to do with what religion is wrong or right, if any at all. Youre looking for values that arent there. If I need to open my mind, youve got to be less easily offended.

If you have read what im saying you'd no im concerned about what others think of it looking from the outside. I never said you agree with it but a lot of people who like the GW games(in my experience) do agree with it, so I was making a general point at that. Those values are there by the way, I havent even read them all and I know thats what it implies. Im not offended im just not into the ridicule of others through story, actions or anything. Except comedy because comedians are at least fair enough to make fun of everybody haha.

Also you have yet again missed my point. Its not about WHAT religion is right, it blatantly lumps them together into a big lot and effectively calls them backwards unintelligent people, a hindrance and so forth . Just look at why the emperor kills them off, and how he does it. That alone should ring alarm bells as to the intention of the author.

And foryou miko I havent really played that game haha.

And again.

Why is this wrong and why do we care? It's a fictional story. I don't care if it offends religious groups, it's entertaining fiction, and thus it fulfills its job. And bloody context would help you as well, as if you actually knew the background of W40K, you'd know religion can often lead into Chaos corruption. It doesn't matter what your religion is. Unless it has a brutal enforcement agency such as the Inquisition, it will quite likely end up warped to Chaos, which is why the Emperor wanted to purge all religion.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Problem is, Swas, most people here grew up on the phrase "An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded".

I'll be honest I have never heard that phrase. But I live in a western farming country so...

It's from Dawn of War. It's one of the things the Librarian says.

Quite apart from that, it appeared in the 2nd and 3rd edition rulebooks, and the Inquisitor rulebook.

 Swastakowey wrote:

Jollydevil wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:
No but if snow White had a dwarf leader who killed off all the black dwarfs then was left with 7 white ones to mine the gold then it would be offensive. If horus heresy contained no mentioed religion until the cult situation then it would have been great in my opinion. After all a truly good leader would tolerate people's views not slaughter them until the rest obeys.
Im not blaming the book im blaming the people marketing the book at an audience who are too young to grasp it and take it how it is.
I never blamed the books.
Also you guys need to open your minds a bit, its easy to find book you agree with is fine for people to read because thats
easy.
I will say no more but as I said earlier a book marketed for kids should not contain issues like this.

Who said I agree with the books? Regardless, even if I did, that has nothing to do with the situation. My point was that if youre looking for something to be offended about, you will find it. In this case, the point of religion in 40K has nothing to do with what religion is wrong or right, if any at all. Youre looking for values that arent there. If I need to open my mind, youve got to be less easily offended.

If you have read what im saying you'd no im concerned about what others think of it looking from the outside. I never said you agree with it but a lot of people who like the GW games(in my experience) do agree with it, so I was making a general point at that. Those values are there by the way, I havent even read them all and I know thats what it implies. Im not offended im just not into the ridicule of others through story, actions or anything. Except comedy because comedians are at least fair enough to make fun of everybody haha.

Also you have yet again missed my point. Its not about WHAT religion is right, it blatantly lumps them together into a big lot and effectively calls them backwards unintelligent people, a hindrance and so forth . Just look at why the emperor kills them off, and how he does it. That alone should ring alarm bells as to the intention of the author.

And foryou miko I havent really played that game haha.

No, these "values" are not there. The reason religion is in 40K is to
A)Create a link to reality (inquisition, crusades, etc). This couldnt be more blatant. The inquisition is the 40K counter part to the real life inquisition. The Crusades are the 40K counter part to real life crusades.
B)Show the backwards nature of the Imperium. Dont mistake me here. Its not that religion is present in 40K that makes things backwards, its that its being used as a force to control the entire population, just like it was in the times of the Vatican Power and other similar historical events.
C)Irony. Think of Atheism as a religion itself. The emperor, under atheism, wants to convert the population of the Imperium to the "true faith". The irony lies in the fact that because of the emperor the Imperium is now of the exact opposite of his idealogical standing. If you subbed in Christianity, Islam, Deism, Libertarianism, Communism, or any other idea structure for that matter, it would still send the same message.
In short, 40K isnt trying to impose values on its players. The "values" you speak of on anti religious sentiment are existent only in the 40K universe. Theyre not there to create a political point, or to shame others. Theyre there because theyre a part of the 40K universe, meant to give a realistic feel to things and to give the player/ reader a general understanding of the distopia in the future.
Xenophobia exists in excess in the Imperium. Does this mean it means to teach us that we should all begin shunning and killing immigrants? No. Its simply a characteristic of 40K intended to give the reader or player an understanding on the universe of 40K.
So, no I have not missed your point. I think youre missing what its purpose is, and attributing it to something else. The same things above can be said for nearly all other values in 40K.

Nope. He wanted a human only utopia, free of religion and superstition, and peace to reign the universe. For mankind only. Never happened....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Read the Heresy series. There is one book where an assassin finds the last Christian Priest and kills him and the last Christians.... Later in HH series the "religion" of the emperor starts, and many officials try to stop it because it goes against the will of the Emperor. And of course the Word Bearers get into superstition and black magic, plus TS use their psychic abilities that the emperor didn't want them to use...Later, after the Emperor is dead, the Terra politicians and Inq use religion as a control tool.....

Except that the Emperor did want Magnus to use his powers, but only when the Emperor told him, in a very specific way.

Magnus existed to sit on the golden throne forever.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Except that the Emperor did want Magnus to use his powers, but only when the Emperor told him, in a very specific way.

true...