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NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
The Heavy slot ranking generally tends to be:
1- Annihilation Barges
2- Spyders
3- Doomscythes
4- Monoliths
5- Doomsday Arks

Is there a point at which the options become Gak though?

Honestly, it all depends on the rest of the list.
Annihilation Barges are great because they can be added to any list without having to worry.
Everything else tends to need the entire list built around them to get them to pay off (being the case, just randomly throwing any of them into a list won't work out so well).

 skoffs wrote:
The Heavy slot ranking generally tends to be:
1- Annihilation Barges
2- Spyders
3- Doomscythes
4- Monoliths
5- Doomsday Arks

Well, Spyders are too slow to keep with the rest of the army (Wraiths, units deployed from Night Scythes).
My vote goes to Annihilation Barges and Doom Scythes in this order. The rest is meh.

So, as we tend to play 1850pts, I was entertaining using Imotech and Orikan as my HQ choices, to make that first turn essentially a wasted one for 90% of opponents (bar Tau, night-vision, etc....), with plenty of time to get into Necron "mid-range" sweet spot.

What might work well with a list like that? Likewise, what, if any lists would be conducive to Monolith or Doomsday Ark usage?

I'm just trying to lean away from Cron Air, as my local meta is sooo light on flyers that I would feel like an ass if I played up that particular strength, to excess.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
So, as we tend to play 1850pts, I was entertaining using Imotech and Orikan as my HQ choices

That seems like waaaay too much points to be devoting to HQ at that point level (you'll want to include various Royal Court members to have those two ICs perform most effectively, after all). Besides, keep in mind that if you bring Imotekh, you'll be hamstringing your own long distance shooting, too, so leave the Doomsday Arks/Heavy Gauss Cannons/Eldrich Lances/etc. at home if he's on the table.
If you want to shutdown enemy shooting on turn one, just get a Destruct-tek with a Solar Pulse.

Clearly everyone has different opinions and ultimately I think it's best if you make your own decisions about what works best for you.

Personally I like DoomsDay Arks, The mere threat of a large blast STR 9 AP1 is enough to make most opponents cringe. Yes it costs twice as much as an A. barge but it also has the longest range of every weapon in our codex.

Deathmarks are amazing, they are snipers that can rapid fire, and they are the only unit in the game that can brag that. Additionally, 4+ to wound anything means that every monstrous creature is wounded on a 4+ (2+ if marked). You can take multiple small units of these and have multiple marked units on the board that all the deathmarks get a 2+ to wound.

All the HQ characters have a niche that they fill well. Personally, I always take Nemesor Zahndrek. For all the wargear he has, his special rules end up being incredibly cheap. Don't get seduced by the CCB. They are interesting on paper but there is a lot of consideration that needs to go into making them effective.

A lot of ground units are overpriced for what you are getting, stick to warriors, immortals, wraiths, and deathmarks for the most bang for your buck. Lychgaurd, praetorians, destroyers and heavy destroyers would be awesome units but not at their cost. Most of these are 40pts each (60 for H Destroyers). Don't be afraid to play with them for fun games if you own them but they aren't competitve for the price.

Tomb Blades are interesting, I would like them more if I could take more than 5.

Monoliths are fun, they are the most durable vehicle we have, being able to deepstrike and port units through is also very nice. They are pretty expensive however. I do like the strength 8, AP3 weapon though, awewsome against Space marines.

Like I said upfront though, take the units that work for you, everything has a place (except maybe flayed ones and C'tan)

Just going to toss out my opinions on the best and least competitive options in the codex.

Best
Canoptek Wraiths
Nightscythes
Annhiliation Barges
Mindshackle Scarabs
Anakyr the Traveller
Canoptek Scarabs

Worst
Flayed Ones
Triarch Stalkers (regardless of how cool they 'look' you will never, ever, earn back the points these things take to field in kills with 'em)
Praetorians (see Stalker description)

Middle of the road:
Everything Else. (can be tuned to a specific purpose like the named HQs and C'Tan, or must be taken to fulfill FOC requirements, but is overcosted and/or less versatile compared to the best the dex has to offer. Note: this doesn't mean 'bad', just not 'blindly efficent')

Warmonger2757 wrote:
Personally I like DoomsDay Arks, The mere threat of a large blast STR 9 AP1 is enough to make most opponents TARGET IT IMMEDIATELY

Fixed that for you.
Doomsday Arks will be priority one for your opponent. You might get one shot with it, if you're lucky.
Because they have to remain stationary to be able to fire that S9 AP1 pie plate, it won't get a jink save, making it incredibly vulnerable. Their underslung guns mean anything you shoot at will probably be obscured, while the Ark itself is so high up that you will have very little chance of getting a cover save. Yes, you could give it a Skyshield, but that would make it 250 points... you can't think of something better to spend 250 points on?)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Neorealist wrote:
Worst
[...]
Praetorians

Actually, Praetorians with a ResOrb Destroyer Lord are quite efficient against TEQs, about on par with Wraiths. Significantly better than Lychguard, anyway.

I haven't found a situation that I'd much rather have praetorians in than wraiths, but then I've never fought an army entirely composed of models with a 2+ save either. I suspect that rending works just as well vs. them as it does anything else though, and the invuln save and other perks are decent enough that they are at the very least comparable. That said, they obliterate an equally costed squad of praetorians vs a lot of other things too, so they are the better buy over all.

I have never found praetorians to last long enough to bring their admittedly lethal CC attacks to bear, which is why they are in the 'bad' (aka over costed) category for me. (granted lychguard aren't much better that way, but a res orb and the invuln shields goes a fair distance to correct that)

The difference between Lychguard and Praetorians is the same thing Wraiths have over Lychguard: speed.
If you're facing TEQs, you need to get the charge. Lychguard are usually the ones receiving the charge (besides, if you're face Terminators, the swords wouldn't be worth taking, so the increased survivability that shields offer wouldn't factor in).

ResOrb with the Praetorians keeps them perfectly survivable. (Destroyer Lord tanks, they all Look-Out-Sir for him when needed until they get into combat).
They're unnecessary if you expect to face mostly 3+ saves, but against anything 2+, this unit is devastating (mostly because their Rods fire at AP2 as well. Yeah, that's only a 6" range, but seeing as how you're probably going to be charging them as well, that is a sh*t ton of low AP coming at whatever they're about to hit (5 to 10 S5 AP2 shots, followed by 6 to 11 Hammer of Wrath, followed by 10 to 20 S6 AP2 + 4 S7 AP1 blows struck in CC, all with rerolls to 1s). While Rending is great and all, if you're facing Termies, this is the kind of damage you want to be doing).

For competitve play I run wraithwing as it is fun to play, resilent, and fast moving. That and it can assault. I so miss running my Geneshock Tyranid lists.

For fun, I like to take The Traveler (I think, don't have my codex in front of me. The named lord that can teleport around) and a Cryptek with the teleport ability and attach each of them to a 20 man squad of warriors or a 10 man squad of immortals and just teleport across the board and rapid-fire every turn.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
So, as we tend to play 1850pts, I was entertaining using Imotech and Orikan as my HQ choices, to make that first turn essentially a wasted one for 90% of opponents (bar Tau, night-vision, etc....), with plenty of time to get into Necron "mid-range" sweet spot.

What might work well with a list like that? Likewise, what, if any lists would be conducive to Monolith or Doomsday Ark usage?

I'm just trying to lean away from Cron Air, as my local meta is sooo light on flyers that I would feel like an ass if I played up that particular strength, to excess.

I also have the impulse to play necrons, but not play the standard list. I originally swore off scythes, anihililation barges, and wraiths, but I had to eventually put barges back in, simply because without scythes and barges you have no anti air.

anyway, here's my current list:

Necron Overlord: resurrection orb.
• 5 Crypteks: 5× Harbinger of Destruction (solar pulse).
Necron Overlord: resurrection orb. 120
• 5 Crypteks: 5× Harbinger of Destruction (solar pulse).

15 Necron Warriors
• Ghost Ark 115
5 Necron Warriors
• Ghost Ark 115
5 Necron Warriors
• Ghost Ark 115
10 Necron Immortals

Necron Monolith
Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge

The cryptesk all go in the ghost arks as a group. Having 5 str 8 ap 2 shots coming out of an AV 13 vehicle is not quite as good as a wraith squad, but its pretty close, plus you get 2 solar pulses. Monoliths are not the best in raw power, but they are really fun. you can hide a unit behind them or in reserve and have them suddenly pop out the front, keep minimum squads hidden in the corner and portal them in last turn to cap objectives. One time I ran the monolith up to 60 fire warriors behind an aegis line and portal of exiled them over 2 turns. I used to run 2 monoliths, but as I said, planes would always screw me.

If you want to run Imotekh and Orikan (aka, tremor-crons) you have to add in a c'tan shard. Its the only time in the whole game that you actually want a c'tan shard. I ran this list a couple of times and it was hilarious:

Imotekh the Stormlord 225
• Catacomb Command Barge 80
• 1 Cryptek: Harbinger of Eternity (chronometron). 40
Orikan the Diviner 165

C'tan Shard: Writhing Worldscape; Gaze of Death. 270

16 Necron Warriors 208
• Ghost Ark 115
5 Necron Warriors 65
• Ghost Ark 115
5 Necron Warriors 65
• Ghost Ark 115

Necron Monolith 200
Annihilation Barge 90
Annihilation Barge 90


So orikan+ writhing worldscape means your opponents entire army takes dangerous terrain tests first turn. I put Orikan in the command barge. If he powers up, having whats essentially a monstrous creature flying around in a chariot is priceless.

So, out of curiosity, are there considered best options for Cryptek loadouts?

Reading the Codex, it seems like Harbinger of the Storm stands out as useful (those Haywire shots look great, assuming you can deliver the Cryptek alive), and Despair seems useful.

I see people mention on a few occasions that Deep-Striking Deathmarks with a Cryptek is a superior option to Deep-Striking them the typical way... Is there a reason why? I recall someone saying it was "safer", but I don't see anything implying Cryptek Veil doesn't just follow the normal DS rules?

Oh, and is it ever worth taking Teslas on Immortals versus their Gauss Blasters?

The interaction between the 'mark' ability of the deathmarks and the abyssal staff of the despair-tek is the reason for that one, who doesn't love a Str-8 AP-1 template weapon which wounds on a 2+?

 Neorealist wrote:
The interaction between the 'mark' ability of the deathmarks and the abyssal staff of the despair-tek is the reason for that one, who doesn't love a Str-8 AP-1 template weapon which wounds on a 2+?

I know i'm semi-new to 40k, but won't Str 8 wound almost anything on 2+ anyway?

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
I see people mention on a few occasions that Deep-Striking Deathmarks with a Cryptek is a superior option to Deep-Striking them the typical way... Is there a reason why? I recall someone saying it was "safer", but I don't see anything implying Cryptek Veil doesn't just follow the normal DS rules?

No, the SAFE method of delivery for a Death & Despair Squad™ is via Nightscythe. Never give the Despair-tek a Veil unless you absolutely have to (trying to deepstrike close enough to be able to use the flame template is not worth the scatter/mishap risk).

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 Neorealist wrote:
The interaction between the 'mark' ability of the deathmarks and the abyssal staff of the despair-tek is the reason for that one, who doesn't love a Str-8 AP-1 template weapon which wounds on a 2+?

I know i'm semi-new to 40k, but won't Str 8 wound almost anything on 2+ anyway?

Read the codex entry on the Despair-tek's weapon: it normally uses the leadership stat instead of toughness when rolling to wound. If he's in a unit of Deathmarks, and using his staff against an enemy unit that's been marked with HfH, the LD of the target won't matter, as he'll be wounding on 2+ no matter what.

Thanks Skoffs. I missed that.

Still seems like a Storm-tek has more versatility over-all though? Haywire can be incredibly strong, and on an Assault 4 weapon with 12" range, I feel like in my meta, that would go further.

I've had fun proxying my warriors for flayed ones (The models are so expensive!) . The Dark Harvest list is a blast and I highly suggest that any cron player getting bored with his army gives it a try. It's free if you proxy like I did and don't forget to add in the special characters too.

Neo, necrons have a ton of different looks and styles they can bring to the table. Fast assaults, shooty blobs, av walls, and flyer spams are all possible. When I first started I used the warrior phalanx, then started adding in spyders, scarabs, and wraiths. It's been a great ride. Pick what models you like then build around that. After a game or two flavor as needed

Well, I will say, thanks to a wonderful trade I am so happy to be jumping right into Necron with 3000pts or so worth. There would just be so much that I would want that if I were starting from nothing I would have no idea which way to go...

As it stands, other than modifying a Destroyer to be a Destroyer Lord, and probably buying some Wraiths, I have most of the options I would want, and in decent numbers.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Still seems like a Storm-tek has more versatility over-all though? Haywire can be incredibly strong, and on an Assault 4 weapon with 12" range, I feel like in my meta, that would go further.

... unless your opponent doesn't bring any vehicles (eg. 'Nids), then you're screwed (getting close enough to use that staff means getting chopped up in the subsequent opponent assault phase).

Despair-teks remain the most useful (AP1 flamer, ability to make enemy units flee just by looking at them, and most importantly, ability to teleport their unit anywhere on the table). If you're planning on a turn one alpha strike, these are your guys.

Alternatively, if you know you're gonna be face a fast army, throwing in some Tremor-teks will do wonders for slowing them down.

 skoffs wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Still seems like a Storm-tek has more versatility over-all though? Haywire can be incredibly strong, and on an Assault 4 weapon with 12" range, I feel like in my meta, that would go further.

... unless your opponent doesn't bring any vehicles (eg. 'Nids), then you're screwed (getting close enough to use that staff means getting chopped up in the subsequent opponent assault phase).

Despair-teks remain the most useful (AP1 flamer, ability to make enemy units flee just by looking at them, and most importantly, ability to teleport their unit anywhere on the table). If you're planning on a turn one alpha strike, these are your guys.

Alternatively, if you know you're gonna be face a fast army, throwing in some Tremor-teks will do wonders for slowing them down.

I see your wisdom in this, but heart-breakingly, as a 'Nid player, I also know not to fear 'Nids much. :-p