Another Grav-Gun Question?

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**rigeld2**

DeathReaper wrote:
BlackTalos wrote:
Well, you roll VS armour save because of a special rule.

No you don't roll VS armour save because of a special rule...

What special rule makes you roll against their armor save instead of toughness, I cant find it on pages 32- 43...

Page 51 says that a weapon profile may have Special Rules.
Grav weapons are Salvo, Graviton. By definition, Graviton is a special rule.
Your statement t is incorrect.

**DeathReaper**

Edit: Misread.

**BlackTalos**

DeathReaper wrote:
BlackTalos wrote:
Well, you roll VS armour save because of a special rule.

No you don't roll VS armour save because of a special rule...

What special rule makes you roll against their armor save instead of toughness, I cant find it on pages 32- 43...

Is it not a mechanic enforced by the Grav weaponry special Rule? found in the Space marine codex?

I'm not saying you're wrong, i'm just curious as to how you think of it.

**IVII**

Our club has been using majority save to wound with Grav. Until an FAQ comes out this seems to be the quickest and easiest way to do things. (Which in my opinion makes it better!)

**nutty_nutter**

Page 16
– Shooting Phase, Look Out, Sir
Delete “(or unsaved Wounds)” from the first paragraph.
Page 16
– Shooting Phase, Look Out, Sir
Change the second sentence of the second bullet point to:
“Determine which model in the unit is closest to the character,
and resolve the Wound against that model instead.

FAQ

unless I misunderstood your positions, the look out sir rolls happen before you roll to wound.

I use this process because the specifics of grav weapons make the normal roll of majority toughnes moot, since we are not using a toughness value, and since we have no rules to tell us what to do in this situation and since the specifics of grav weapons specify that your roll to wound is the targets sv value you must resolve each hit one at a time.

**rigeld2**

nutty_nutter wrote:
unless I misunderstood your positions, the look out sir rolls happen before you roll to wound.

Absolutely false. You Look Out when a wound is allocated to one of your characters (p16). You cannot allocate wounds before you roll to wound.

**nosferatu1001**

You misunderstand. It now occurs prior to rolling any saves. Previously it could occur after saves.

It is not performed before you roll to wound. It cannot, as rolling to wound is against the target, which is the unit.

THis possibly explains your confusion on this!

**Co'tor Shas**

DeathReaper wrote:
BlackTalos wrote:
Well, you roll VS armour save because of a special rule.

No you don't roll VS armour save because of a special rule...

What special rule makes you roll against their armor save instead of toughness, I cant find it on pages 32- 43...

It's a unique special. Think things like mini-rending, homing, ect.

**Eihnlazer**

When the codex first came out i was definately in the roll one at a time faction, but it doesnt work with the current wound allocation rules to do it that way and it slows the game down greatly.

I just use the majority toughness rule to make things easy.

I would however note that i dont think majority armor save is nessecarily the best way to do it if a unit only consists of 2 models.

In this case, I LIKE TO PLAY IT, as closest model's armor save is used for the to wound roll. Since it makes more sence and doesnt waste extra time with only 2 models.

**nosferatu1001**

Again, that still breaks when you have mixed weapons.

Making up one rule, that follows the same method we already have for determining majority toughness, and doesn't break the instant you fire a non grav weapon, to me makes a ton more sense

**BlackTalos**

Although he is right in saying that Majority toughness rule does not apply with 2 models, as it clearly asks to use "the highest of these tied values"

If we follow mixed toughness, then that would be the highest save, but it is still an assumption as there is no RaW.

Basically the method has to be used, but does not specify which save to use when it's a tie, although again the "highest value" works quite well...

**nosferatu1001**

No, we know what value to use in a tie, as you follow highest to mean highest numerical, e.g. 1 3+ and 1 6+ means you wound on a 6+. Same as toughness 3 and toughness 6 you wound against t6 .

Benefit is consistent