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BrianDavion you've missed what makes the Errant good. Yes killing high AV is a benefit (particularly with Super Heavies about in normal 40k thanks to Escalation, and AV14 fortifications through SHA) but it is the AP1 that is the main attraction here.

At the competitive end 40k is about deathstars that mostly have 2+ armour saves if not across the board always has some guy at the front wearing it, then you have Riptides and Broadsides everywhere particularly with the FBSC around and finally Wave Serpents are the main non-flyer mech. With Serpents having only their shield capable of glancing the Front of a Knight the Melta puts them in a tough situation do they not attack the Knight at all or do they open themselves out to melta. The more tough decisions you give your opponent the more likely he is to make a mistake.

That is the strength of the Errant against all the best stuff around in 6th Ed he's better.

which is a shame because it puts them out of 1000 points games

Dude, if you think that Knights have any place in 1000 point games... jesus thats as bad as the guys running multiple riptides at that level

i think you should have:

. librarian
. 2 tactical squads with a grav - gun and missile launcher in each one
. devastator centurions
. imperial knight

I run 2 Riptides at 600 whats the problem with that?

Also why on earth would you take grav guns on Tac marines when plasma is superior.

Whats wrong with playing those 'types' of unit at 1000pts? If you catch your opponent off guard they will more than likely say, "thanks bro, have a nice day."
Playing these "types" of units at such a low point game is simply horrible...Why even waste your time playing a game of 40k at that point level with superheavies???
If that doesn't spell WAAC player to you then I don't know what does...

You can easily have Super Heavies in a normal 1k army anyway. I can bring a much more competitive build with no superheavies to 1k anyway. So basically you don't like people bringing big cool models or thinking about their army lists before the game...

Your attitude is that some who is a good player is a bad person and must be WAAC. That to me makes you sound like TFG if anything.

At the competitive end 40k is about deathstars that mostly have 2+ armour saves

Screamer star, seerstar and farsight bomb don't care all that much about AP values, they have cover and invulnerable saves. One AP1 template is no better than 2 AP3 templates vs most these targets.

Dude, if you think that Knights have any place in 1000 point games... jesus thats as bad as the guys running multiple riptides at that level

I like the models, and they are now a standard 40k codex. Running a single vehicle is a sure fine way to have said vehicle explode on turn 1. Sure it has 6 hull points, but AV13/12 is not all that indestructible. Therefore I want to run 2. This isn't an attempt to make a WAAC list, lets be honest, leaving 250 points for 1HQ and 2 Troops makes a pretty poor list when it comes to objectives.

Screamerstar you're right doesn't care. Farsight bomb does as the most competitive build if with a buffmander rather than shadowsun these days though O'Vesastar is more popukar. Seercouncil has 2+ armour and whilst it will generally have 3+ cover and 4+ invun those are still worse than 2+.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Screamerstar you're right doesn't care. Farsight bomb does as the most competitive build if with a buffmander rather than shadowsun these days though O'Vesastar is more popukar. Seercouncil has 2+ armour and whilst it will generally have 3+ cover and 4+ invun those are still worse than 2+.

Vs eldar, a 3+ cover vs 1 template is statistically as durable as a 2+ save vs 2 templates. So the Paladin is still better there, slightly, due to its additional stubber.

Tau stars can be quite variable, so discussing what counters them really depends on the squad at hand. Really though, I'd expect a farsight bomb to bring their own cover, or JSJ into some.


I read through IA2 looking for things to improve a SM list. The sentry guns are an absolute steal in a list that doesn't have a crowded heavy support slot.

Iron Hands CT
Librarian - Auspex

5 x Scouts - Bolters
5 x Scouts - Bolters

Tarantula - Hyperios Missile Launcher
Tarantula - Hyperios Missile Launcher

Knight Paladin
Knight Paladin

The tarantulas will deploy back left and right corners, getting out of the way of any infantry fire (and limiting the chances of giving FB away), and covering the board against flyers. If they enemy wants FB from them, then they will need to either have a very fast army, or use their heavy weapons, which will give the knights more breathing room.
The scouts and librarian will outflank, and therefore try to keep out of harms way as long as they can. Paladins start middle-ish, behind cover as best they can.

Librarian has an auspex to help the knights against units with cover saves, though I doubt it will see much use due to its range.

The Auspex seems to dovetail better with the Errant (ignoring armour) I don't know what the tarantulas do but I'm guessing mediocre AA for practically zero points?

looks decent overall is the libby going with a unit of Scouts?

Yeah, the librarian would go with the scouts, the idea is just to keep them off the board as long as I can. Hopefully failing some reserve rolls. This way all the enemies have to shoot are 2 T6 2W 3+ sentry guns, and the knights.

The tarantulas are actually pretty good anti air. They shoot 1 BS3 krak missile, with interceptor and skyfire, that re-roll misses on flyers and fast skimmers (though not FMC). The having interceptor makes them much more viable than the space marines anti-air tanks imo.
Think of it like an imperial guard missile launcher team - With double the toughness, double the armour, skyfire & interceptor, TL vs fast skimmers and flyers and fearless.....for 5 points more.

I might make one of the paladins into an errant, and the use the 5 points to give the scouts not with the librarian sniper rifles (I like the models). The librarian will have to move more, so his squad can keep their bolters. The ausepx is normally better on characters with bikes, due to its short range. But as the librarian is outflanking with the scouts, an opportunity may arise when he can run onto the board and prime a target for the knights to take out.

The list would also work with Dark Angels, the points are the same. They would lose the Iron hands FNP, and gain the mostly useless stubborn rule, however the librarian is fearless, and can roll on divination, and give the knights prescience, which would be incredibly useful.

Edit: But they would have to drop the auspex, or use 2 errants, as the scouts are a little more expensive.

Remember also that you'd not be able to cast prescience the turn you arrive from reserve. So keep that in mind when you make your decision.

Yes there will be no prescience on the turn the librarian arrives which is a shame.

Divination has has 3 useful skills to a knight though, 4++ save to help vs multi direction attacks as well as cc, re-roll successful saving throws helps vs cover and invulnerable saves, and of course prescience to make sure those templates and few melee attacks land.

If not using DA, then telepathy offers very good utility, even without invisibility and hallucination. Terrify can be a game changer, and puppet master can be fun with the growing number of superheavies.

I'd rather take Lukas the Trickster than any Knight. I've stasis bombed Skarbrand, and it was priceless.

Pyeatt wrote:
I'd rather take Lukas the Trickster than any Knight. I've stasis bombed Skarbrand, and it was priceless.

Very helpful...

Back on topic. Stubborn is if anything a liability ditto to a lesser extent fearless. Also Psychic Shriek is very useful for sniping off Majtleseers and the like. So it all comes down to taste really.

Quick question regarding knights, instead of starting a new topic for it.

The Chainsword is Str D, the knight is Str 10.

I I cause a wound on a space marine captain with 3 wounds, does he suffer instant death, or D3+1 wounds?

 FlingitNow wrote:
Clearly you're missing what you need to hurt to win games.

The things you really need to kill in order to win are troops. Which rarely have 2+ save.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
Quick question regarding knights, instead of starting a new topic for it.

The Chainsword is Str D, the knight is Str 10.

I I cause a wound on a space marine captain with 3 wounds, does he suffer instant death, or D3+1 wounds?

As far as I know, you don't ID him.

If a weapon has S stat, the models S is irrelevant.
Example: Brother Corbulo has S4 but his chainsword is S5. His own S does not affect the weapons S in any way.
If he was buffed (psychic power, FC, etc) into S6 he would still strike with S5 with his sword (or S6 without it if that's legal).

The things you really need to kill in order to win are troops. Which rarely have 2+ save. 

This is not 5th Ed troops are no where near as important. Apart from Serpent Spam (which again the Errant is better against) you very rarely see much more than minimum troops on the tournament scene.