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Battletech. The starter set contains enough units for many players and the game is fun to play and has many great expansions.

It also has one of the best and most extensive backgrounds ever, and it is continually growing. The best part is the flexibility of the units though.
Linky to the wiki: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Main_Page

The starter set is being reprinted with better models and will be available in may.

One suggestion I would make is to not try and find a game that "can be expanded" Most games have some flexibility, but I've yet to find a game that truely plays well at vastly different scopes (game sizes). If you want a warband sized skirmish game, then play a warband size skirmish game. If you want a company-level mass battle fantasy game then go with rules for that game.

The other suggestion would be to really consider one of the games that your LGS is already playing. The best game in the world won't get you a game if you don't have anyone to play against.

Litcheur wrote:

 melkorthetonedeaf wrote:
So I've been getting involved with my LGS lately, and they play a variety of games. This is pretty awesome for me, cuz my previous gaming group sort of fizzled out.

I want you guys to recommend a miniatures based tabletop game for me to try out. I won't list the games they play at the LGS, or the ones that I play or have played (and hopefully no one will be sneaky and read my previous posts). Here's some info about me:

I like games that have a strong story component to them. I enjoy painting and modeling quite a bit, but I also want the option to just do a quick monochrome scheme and get to playing. I would prefer something that costs under $100 to start playing (rules, army core, tools, etc). I like games that are quick and fun but can be expanded to larger battles. ALSO! I would prefer a ruleset that is well crafted and easy to pick up.

What do you think?

Systems that definitely suit your needs :
Kings of Wars : nice, fast rules that works well with both small and (very) large battles. The lore is ok, and the minis quite inexpensive.
WarmaHordes : can be quite competitive, but the rules are tight, and work well with both small and medium/large engagements.
Warmaster : seriously, if someone is still playing this game, you HAVE to give it a try. Miniatures can be hard to find though.

A small comment about Kings of War. It has been my experience that it does not play well at less than 1400 points. It's still a playable game, and can be made better at low points levels by limiting all units to their smallest size, but we found that it lacks depth at sub 1400 point games.

However, it's an excellent game at larger points values and while you are building your KoW armies a game like Song of Blades and Heroes in an excellent option.

Song of Blades and heroes has most of your criteria, though not all. It isn't expandable and it doesn't have a pre-produced setting that includes miniatures, but it is extremely well crafted, easy to learn and fun to play. The lack of a setting+ miniatures package is made up for by the fact that there is an excellent campaign expansion that makes it easy to run an engaging multiplayer campaign with fluff of your choice. Also, since it allows you to stat up any miniatures you would like, it's great for the hobbyist. You can cherry pick only the best miniatures that you really want to paint from any makers and not have to buy anything you don't like just because the game designers tell you too.

master of ordinance wrote:Battletech. The starter set contains enough units for many players and the game is fun to play and has many great expansions.

It also has one of the best and most extensive backgrounds ever, and it is continually growing. The best part is the flexibility of the units though.
Linky to the wiki: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Main_Page

The starter set is being reprinted with better models and will be available in may.

I would suggest that the Battletech rules are something less than "easy to pick up". However, the "Alpha Strike" rules by the same company make for a very fast-moving game that scales up well.

Also, with a ton (1-200?) of sourcebooks produced over 30 years and nearly all of them still game legal, the Battletech universe is one of the most developed game universes in existence and the only books that ever need to be replaced are the core rulebooks which get a minor update every 6 years or so.

Lastly Though none of the BT rules are particularly expandable in themself, a BT universe ruleset exists. for most every size of engagement. They produce rulesets for:
-RPG: A Time of War
-Platoon level 25mm. Battletroops (this one is hard to get)
-1-2 Platoon level 6mm , A few mechs per side : Battletech also known as Classic Battletech, this is the game everyone thinks of as Battletech.
-Company level engagements: Alpha Strike
-Battallion Level Engagements: Battleforce. Similar to ALpha Strike (actually the basis for Alpha Strike) but played on a hexmap with each unit representing multiple units.
-Aerospace engagements: Battlespace
There's even mechanics in the upper level rulebooks for running system wide campaigns.

With the exception of "Alpha Strike" (the only one I play) all of these are governed by an awful lot of rules, but if you want to go deeper into a gaming universe than you ever thought possible, it's hard to do better than Battletech.

 Eilif wrote:
One suggestion I would make is to not try and find a game that "can be expanded" Most games have some flexibility, but I've yet to find a game that truely plays well at vastly different scopes (game sizes). If you want a warband sized skirmish game, then play a warband size skirmish game. If you want a company-level mass battle fantasy game then go with rules for that game.

Songs of Our Ancestors/This Quar's War

SoA is skirmish level, TQW is platoon/company level. You can even get Quar models in 15mm and scale up the game size. Zombiesmith is also working on 10mm tanks if you want to scale up to even larger games.

It is all bound in a richly detailed, captivating setting with a nice array of supplements and ongoing support and expansion. The game is very narrative in nature with the rules based on some long established basic systems. It is a fantasy setting that plays like a historical Wargame, encouraging narrative play but giving a ton of freedom to flex the muscles of your imagination.

I still say I win. Check it out. The world of Quar grabs hold of you and doesn't let go. Beautiful models too.

weeble1000 wrote:

 Eilif wrote:
One suggestion I would make is to not try and find a game that "can be expanded" Most games have some flexibility, but I've yet to find a game that truely plays well at vastly different scopes (game sizes). If you want a warband sized skirmish game, then play a warband size skirmish game. If you want a company-level mass battle fantasy game then go with rules for that game.

Songs of Our Ancestors/This Quar's War

SoA is skirmish level, TQW is platoon/company level. You can even get Quar models in 15mm and scale up the game size. Zombiesmith is also working on 10mm tanks if you want to scale up to even larger games.

It is all bound in a richly detailed, captivating setting with a nice array of supplements and ongoing support and expansion. The game is very narrative in nature with the rules based on some long established basic systems. It is a fantasy setting that plays like a historical Wargame, encouraging narrative play but giving a ton of freedom to flex the muscles of your imagination.

I still say I win. Check it out. The world of Quar grabs hold of you and doesn't let go. Beautiful models too.

Anyone who chooses the world of the Quar is a winner, but it's certainly not a counter to the idea that one ruleset rarely works well for more than one scope. I've got both of these games and though they are in the same universe, they are completely different and incompatible rulesets. Song of our Ancestors is based on the "Song of Blades and Heroes" and "Flying Lead" rules from Ganesha games and near as I can tell, This Quar's War is the invention of it's author. The Quar rules sets are a good example of a company not trying to shoehorn more than one scope into a single expandable set of rules and instead coming up with a different ruleset for each. Very similar to how the Battletech universe has different rules for different scopes, though among those rulesets there are some shared mechanics and inter-game conversion systems.

However, as you say the universe is really interesting (neverending ww1 on an alien land that is vaguely familiar) being both whimsical and kind of dark and the minis are also great. The 15mm line is particularly appealing as a really affordable way to enjoy two different rulesets and a cool universe. Lastly, it's notable that as well as the additional fluff, the third and fourth books ( "Of Spats and Pedrails" and "Tales of the breach") for the Quar universe contain game stats for both rulesets.

If you want a taste of Quar, This Quar's War is free at wargames vault:
http://www.wargamevault.com/product_info.php?products_id=82638

 Eilif wrote:
One suggestion I would make is to not try and find a game that "can be expanded" Most games have some flexibility, but I've yet to find a game that truely plays well at vastly different scopes (game sizes). If you want a warband sized skirmish game, then play a warband size skirmish game. If you want a company-level mass battle fantasy game then go with rules for that game.

The other suggestion would be to really consider one of the games that your LGS is already playing. The best game in the world won't get you a game if you don't have anyone to play against.

Litcheur wrote:

 melkorthetonedeaf wrote:
So I've been getting involved with my LGS lately, and they play a variety of games. This is pretty awesome for me, cuz my previous gaming group sort of fizzled out.

I want you guys to recommend a miniatures based tabletop game for me to try out. I won't list the games they play at the LGS, or the ones that I play or have played (and hopefully no one will be sneaky and read my previous posts). Here's some info about me:

I like games that have a strong story component to them. I enjoy painting and modeling quite a bit, but I also want the option to just do a quick monochrome scheme and get to playing. I would prefer something that costs under $100 to start playing (rules, army core, tools, etc). I like games that are quick and fun but can be expanded to larger battles. ALSO! I would prefer a ruleset that is well crafted and easy to pick up.

What do you think?

Systems that definitely suit your needs :
Kings of Wars : nice, fast rules that works well with both small and (very) large battles. The lore is ok, and the minis quite inexpensive.
WarmaHordes : can be quite competitive, but the rules are tight, and work well with both small and medium/large engagements.
Warmaster : seriously, if someone is still playing this game, you HAVE to give it a try. Miniatures can be hard to find though.

A small comment about Kings of War. It has been my experience that it does not play well at less than 1400 points. It's still a playable game, and can be made better at low points levels by limiting all units to their smallest size, but we found that it lacks depth at sub 1400 point games.

However, it's an excellent game at larger points values and while you are building your KoW armies a game like Song of Blades and Heroes in an excellent option.

I would place the lower limit as closer to 1,000 points, at least for Undead and Dwarfs, but, yeah - the game does work better at higher points.

The Auld Grump

 Eilif wrote:


Anyone who chooses the world of the Quar is a winner, but it's certainly not a counter to the idea that one ruleset rarely works well for more than one scope. I've got both of these games and though they are in the same universe, they are completely different and incompatible rulesets. Song of our Ancestors is based on the "Song of Blades and Heroes" and "Flying Lead" rules from Ganesha games and near as I can tell, This Quar's War is the invention of it's author. The Quar rules sets are a good example of a company not trying to shoehorn more than one scope into a single expandable set of rules and instead coming up with a different ruleset for each. Very similar to how the Battletech universe has different rules for different scopes, though among those rulesets there are some shared mechanics and inter-game conversion systems.

However, as you say the universe is really interesting (neverending ww1 on an alien land that is vaguely familiar) being both whimsical and kind of dark and the minis are also great. The 15mm line is particularly appealing as a really affordable way to enjoy two different rulesets and a cool universe. Lastly, it's notable that as well as the additional fluff, the third and fourth books ( "Of Spats and Pedrails" and "Tales of the breach") for the Quar universe contain game stats for both rulesets.

If you want a taste of Quar, This Quar's War is free at wargames vault:
http://www.wargamevault.com/product_info.php?products_id=82638

Except that as far as the thrust of the OP's request for recommendations is concerned, it functionally matters little whether the same exact set of rules scales up. What matters is that there is a consistent set of fluff and models associated with pre-designed rules that one can play 'out of the box'. One can, without doing any rules writing on one's own, play Quar wargames with the same 28mm miniatures from small squad actions up to large scale battles.

The only hitch is that, as you point out, you have to learn two different sets of rules. That's a fair point to make, but in the world of table top wargaming, that distinction is a grey area anyway. You can play 40K with Kill Team, 40K, Epic, and Battle Fleet Gothic. That's a perfectly fair point to make, but that flies in the face of what the OP is looking for which includes:

Low cost, simplicity, well-crafted, and easy.

SOA and TQW are both very simple, decently-crafted systems, (TQW is based on Ganesha's Flying Lead btw), are both actively supported, can be enjoyed for a reasonable price, can do fine with a relatively monochrome paint job, play quickly, and have a very strong story component.

I play a wide variety of table top wargames, and for what the OP wants, SOA/TQW hits just about all of those notes, which is nigh on impossible to do.

X-Wing The Miniatures Game comes close, but as soon as I read the first post it seemed to me that X-Wing lacked something the OP was looking for. Turns out I was right. X-Wing is a little 'light' in terms of an immersive hobby experience. You can force it if you are a big star wars fan, but you've got to work the game/setting to get there. That's not what the OP is looking for.

In contrast, Quar is laid out in wonderful depth and character in reasonably priced game books, the basic of which are free! The forums are awash with fan-made stories and fluff. The models are characterful, decently priced at ~$5 per model (and for TQW you can go cheaper and get the 15mm stuff), and fairly easy to assemble. The rules are simple enough to pick up the basics in a quick read-through and you can get to gaming in no time. The models respond very well to a really basic basecoat, wash, pick out details paint job. The forces have a very WWI military feel, so monochrome is perfectly acceptable for Quar uniforms, especially the Crusaders, and you can easily go back and fancy up a quick paint job once you have more time.

And now with the new Quar-only website, dipping your toes into Quar is much easier than it was before (it used to be rather confusing to navigate the site and understand wtf everything was).

I haven't seen anything else recommended in this thread that hits as many notes as Quar does. There's some options out there, but nothing I've seen presented in this thread so far.

Dystopian Wars/Firestorm Armada is cheap as hell to get into and can be really fun. Rules are easy to understand and there's only a few complicated parts.

Dystopian is also getting an update soon that will hopefully iron out the parts that slow the game down. Naval combat is a nice change of pace from 28mm company level games. I'd definitely give it a go.

weeble1000 wrote:


X-Wing The Miniatures Game comes close, but as soon as I read the first post it seemed to me that X-Wing lacked something the OP was looking for. Turns out I was right. X-Wing is a little 'light' in terms of an immersive hobby experience. You can force it if you are a big star wars fan, but you've got to work the game/setting to get there. That's not what the OP is looking for...

...I haven't seen anything else recommended in this thread that hits as many notes as Quar does. There's some options out there, but nothing I've seen presented in this thread so far.

Mostly agreed. Some of my group really love X-wing, but your right that it doesn't have quite the same hobby experience, even for those who repaint their ships or substitute models. Does have a very active community of gamers though.

If the setting is appealing and you can find opponents, then Quar is a very strong good choice. I'd say it's probably even easier to get into rules-wise than my earlier suggestion of Battletech, with the only trade of being that it doesn't have BT's history or ubiquity/playerbase.

One other choice that is worth considering is the New "Of Gods and Mortals" by Osprey and Ganesha. It's a scaled up version of Song of Blades and Heroes that accommodates roughly a platoon or so per side. The setting is the combat of traditional dieties and their followers so it's definitely got alot of setting potential. Also, it scales downward easily in that you can shrink it to a skirmish game by leaving out your army's God and using the more streamlined and smaller scope Song of Blades and Heroes rulest,


To the OP,
I know you wanted a "discussion" but it would really help to know what kind of setting interests you. We can make alot of good suggestions, but if it isn't a flavor you enjoy then it's all for naught.

 melkorthetonedeaf wrote:

I don't think I need all four of these points to be addressed, but I think a few of them come pretty close:
1) strong background story or narrative component
2) painting/modeling opportunities
3) elegant ruleset that is easy to pick up
4) won't break the bank to get started

Well, this thread is really where we just throw out our favorite games and lobby for them, so I might as well do the same.

I will second (or third Tomorrow's War/Force-on-Force.

1. Strong Background- There is not background better than your own. That way the story can go anywhere you need it to go, and the only constraints are self-imposed. If you want aliens fighting colonials, you can do it. Robot revolution... yup you can do that too. Two conventional armies battling it out on a deathworld? Yup.

2. Painting/Modelling- There is no "established" miniature line so you can do what you want in the sci-fi setting.

3. Rules- Awesome Action/Reaction system that makes for very dynamic, fluid games that focus on troop quality and not on "gear".

4. Cost- At 15mm it is super cheap and can be played with as few as 4 guys per side up to Platoon+ levels.


My secondary choices are Blackpowder/Hail Ceasar/Warmaster Ancients.

1. Background- Historical so sky is the limit. You can even do Imagi-Nations if you want.

2. Painting/Modelling- Tons of miniature manufacturers out there, metal, plastic, resin and any scale from 2mm up to 72mm. Focus is on infantry, cavalry,artillery triumverate.

3. Rules- Great Command and Control system where leadership matters, and you go until your officers fail to give orders. This means the initative can flow back and forth.

4, Cost- Well, it is designed for larger armies, but with the options out there you can get whole 10mm armies for the price of 1 40K starter set.



I will also recommend Aeronautica Imperialis....

1. Background- You play 40K, you know it.

2. Painting/Modelling- 10mm scale aircraft paint up quick and easy, but you can still customize them.

3. Rules- Simple to learn, hard to master

4. Cost- Well, three out of four ain't bad! Be prepared to proxy, pay throught he nose, or scratchbuild.

I didn't expect so many awesome responses! So I don't have much of a preference for setting, as I like fantasy/SciFi/horror all pretty much equally. A good story is engaging and I don't require everything to have aliens or sword and sorcery or Cthulian monstrosities. It's all good to me.

I've been actually looking into most of the suggestions and think I might end up picking up a starter box of some sort. The idea of a self contained miniatures board game probably fits this best, since I could pick it off the shelf whenever people are over for games but wouldn't need to "invest" too heavily.

I love Infinity and have played Warmachine, and they are both great games in their respect. But they are not really story-driven, and while basic rules are easy to understand, the amount of extra-rules and combos give both a big learning curve.


So I will recommend Freebooters Fate !

Story-driven - lots of scenarios, Pirate-theme (always works!) - easy to pick up rules, some great models, low model-count, easy to substitute with other minifacturers, and great motivator to build terrain.
And I love the cards game (no dice involved!)

The only problem I have with the game is that in order to get the full rules, you need to buy 2 books (3 if you want to play with magic).

 treslibras wrote:
I love Infinity and have played Warmachine, and they are both great games in their respect. But they are not really story-driven, and while basic rules are easy to understand, the amount of extra-rules and combos give both a big learning curve.


So I will recommend Freebooters Fate !

Story-driven - lots of scenarios, Pirate-theme (always works!) - easy to pick up rules, some great models, low model-count, easy to substitute with other minifacturers, and great motivator to build terrain.
And I love the cards game (no dice involved!)

The only problem I have with the game is that in order to get the full rules, you need to buy 2 books (3 if you want to play with magic).

I LOVE Freebooter's Fate. It is a fantastic game to get involved in. I did not recommend it for a couple of reasons. One, the models are fantastic, but can be complicated, and do not respond well to monochrome paint schemes. Two, the game does not "scale up" well. It is very much character driven with a tight focus on individual models.

Nevertheless, it is a really fun game!

I'd recommend Malifaux.
The card system is actually very easy to learn, and I feel adds to the tactical depth of the game.
It's very story driven, and cheap to pick up.
The rules have just been updated so they should be good for a while.