Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Even nobz don't get extra ld.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I've tested a wagon with 13 shootaboyz and 5 scarboyz with slugga+choppa and shoota + 2 nobz. Seems to me that +2 pts for +1 str may be a bit low. This 1 str difference is pretty huge and since they're hidden in unit, it's almost guaranteed that they'll strike. So, for now i'll change the cost for +3 pts per model for +1 str adjustment making a scarboy with slugga+choppa and shoota cost 10 pts. Yep, it seems alot for one ini2 6+ save model. But the fight vs daemon flying circle showed that if scarboyz get in mellee, they start to rock too hard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'll also consider +1 attack instead of str like Brother Haraldus suggested. I'll not toy with 6+ fnp right now.

One of the main things i'm testing now is the new grot's rule - "It's grot's life" applied to regular grots either. I'm afraid it might make grots too good as backfield pointholders if the enemy has no ignore cover, mellee or ability to snipe out runtherds. On the other hand, they fall apart to mellee just as easy as they used to and even a couple models charging grots can reliably wipe the squad no matter how large it is. It's like screaming: "Go get some choppin!"

I agree with the higher point cost for scarboyz when they're hidden in a unit. +2ppm would probably be alright for converting an entire mob due to the high casualty rate, but a hidden scarboy with slugga\choppa is getting very close to a nob's hitting power, without incresing the ppm of the models being lost.

However, keep in mind how the +1 str would interact with a flying circus list; in many cases it will straight up double the amount of wounds caused and would not reflect how scarboys would perform against most other armies (although a nidzilla list would be closest).

Yep, in many cases you won't even use str and that's why i'm pricing it so low. But i just feel that 2 pts is a bit too low for the opportunity. And wagonboyz have nice chances of getting to mellee and use this advantage. So, i'll stop on 3 pts right now and continue testing the grot special rule.
It's Grot's Life can make regular grots a solid option either. Cause they now become dkok with their ignore ranged combat losses till the runtherd is still alive. Might be too much of a buff - must test. Though, it might force some assault-oriented or flamer-drop units on the opponent's side which is super-good for gameplay imo But also it might force more ignore cover stuff which is super-lame

Scar boyz also proved great vs necron wraithspam! Anywayz, this +1 str is well worth 3 points if you happen to get in mellee. I'll keep it this way for now.

About grots with "It's grot's life" special rule. I'll note once again that it essencially makes grots ignore casualties suffered from shooting (but not mellee) for ld checks if they still have any ork models left in the squad.

I've had 2 squads of 10+runtherd but couldn't fully test this rule cause one squad got killed in 1 phase and the other got a runtherd killed so grots could no longer ignore casualties and failed ld5. That's perfectly fine but i'm still afraid that they might be too good as pointholders when you place them in a ruin or woods for 3+ cover when gone to ground. With this rule, grots act like DKOK. But the good part is that Runtherd is usually possible to snipe out. And they still cost 3 pts for t2 armor - models. So, test in progress yet.

It's pretty hard to test stuff appropriately cause 3 of my last opponents haven't even faced orkses before...And didn't take them seriously both in cc and shooting. BS 2 is deceptive with such ammount of shots we can pull at 18'. And This grot shields + 'eavy armor really helps to get in mellee and not to die before striking. Not being overpowered, but feel like needed and working good. And wagonz still remaining one of the best assault transports in game.

I'm bumping this thread in hopes someone shares their awesome ideas that i could implement and test.

Right now i like what's been done cause without inventing new unique gear and models we've managed to change things to good without making stuff overpowered.

At first i was afraid that new rules for grots would make them extremely overpowered as pointholders but practice showed that if the enemy has assault elements, any deepstrikers/droppods, any cover-ignore weaponry or can snipe out the runtherd, they're not a problem at all. And this stuff is pretty common. I'm not talking about sending something dedicated at grots. If an opponent sends some deepstriking flamers/droppoded sm or stuff like this to kill backfield lootas and other backfield support, when they're done with their main aim, they can switch on grots. And grots will have no chances. Just like they should.

Note that i've removed a runtherd's special rule that allows ld rerolls. They just cost 10 pts as a tax for grots with such rule and grabba stick.