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Yes, add more LOS blocking terrain, my artillery doesn't mind at all

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:
Is there a kind of terrain that doesn't restrict movement?

One of the things that's often overlooked in discussions about terrain is that terrain is usually worse for assaulting armies than it is for shooting armies.

Tank traps don't restrict movement to Infantry models....

Hills don't restrict movement either, unless you and your opponent agree on a house rule to that effect.

When it comes to buildings, my group has a large supply of them, although everyone just plays them as ruins, which definitely seems to be simpler and better than using them as actual buildings.

 ansacs wrote:
Unless you play with a wall taller than your models and the entire board across you will be able to shoot the enemy. Such terrain is also impassable and so you cannot be charged through it. Also the fact that you have not considered how to deal with assault is a sad commentary on the game. IG has little to fear from assault if designed correctly. Use speed bump squads and shoot the unit point blank. The heldrakes are not "sneaking" up on anyone. Waveserpents can be shot at if they can shoot you and if they cannot shoot you your barrage can still shoot them. Tau are sneaking up on your IG gunline and charging them?


Most buildings (especially if they have doors on each side) and billboard/tall wall style terrain are great for assault armies. Not only do they help close but can even keep overwatch damage down by putting a spotter out and keeping the rest of the unit out of LoS.

only if something is charging in 6th it is most offten a FMC or something realy fast like scout bikers. I had games with LoS blocking terrain . They went like this . Turn one keeper of secret and 2 Demon Princes do an auto of LoS conga behing a central tower that blocks line of sight , one unit of scoting demons buffed by grimore parks itself in a position to charge me turn 2. My options are , move away from eagis and not get charged . move closer and get charged by the FMCs . Stand and have a chance to get charged by the FMCs and be charged by the dogs. I move away shot some dogs. Turn 2 sees his helldrake come up torrent my army and blow up one of my chimer while swooping , dogs charging and tar piting me. His FMC move behind another pillar in a position where they charge me next turn. my two vendettas show up I shot at drake and ground the keeper who is closes to my army , he saves . few dogs are locked in melee with my infantry section . my tanks move away from melee , the keeper has a +2inv , but still takes 2 wounds. Third turn his second drake comes in blows up one vendetta and almost kills the vets that were inside . keeper charges the vets . One DP with dark mace charges my blob and blows it up , the other one catchs my chimera and blows it up too.

Tau are sneaking up on your IG gunline and charging them?

no but I had a game with 6 squads of SMS armed crissis suits jumping out from behind a building which wasn't maned , so I couldn't shot at it , fire their weapons and then hide

Against nids it was simiular . He casts some psy powers and his 3 tyrants fly , shot then run out of LoS , his two crones hide behind one of the pillars . On turn two he pops up the tyrants again shots and hides with them with runing , his crones glance one of my chimera to death . Third turn when I come in I try to ground the tyrans but get LoS to only one and he passes the test , on his turn he starts a charge with 5 FMC and blows up my tanks and 2 vendettas with vets .

The thing that gets me is by the rules you can never have a battle on an open flat plain or in miles of corn fields.

 Mythra wrote:
The thing that gets me is by the rules you can never have a battle on an open flat plain or in miles of corn fields.

This isn't WWI, running across a bare field to try and root out your opponent's while they shoot at you is a poor plan.

Well what about wheat fields. Plenty of Agri worlds there would be field fights and sometimes you can't avoid a fight out in the open.

 Mythra wrote:
Well what about wheat fields. Plenty of Agri worlds there would be field fights and sometimes you can't avoid a fight out in the open.

That's hardly cover though, just concealment!

Also how would that change the game from playing on Planet Cueball exactly?

The fields it would be all 5+ area terrain. So the whole board 5+ with maybe a catches fire special rule.

 Mythra wrote:
The fields it would be all 5+ area terrain. So the whole board 5+ with maybe a catches fire special rule.

So Tau, Eldar, Guard, Whirlwinds, and anyone else I'm not thinking of who has "Ignores Cover" rules would own the board right?

And my Sisters would end up setting the board on fire turn 1. Probably because I like using Heavy Flamers.

Would be funny to see a whole board on fire.

I didn't say it was the most efficient way to play I just asked why there are never battles there.

And you'd prob want to only play some fun games on it not serious games or games vs an army that would just own it.

 Mythra wrote:
Would be funny to see a whole board on fire.

I didn't say it was the most efficient way to play I just asked why there are never battles there.

I'd say a severe lack of "fun" factor for most armies honestly. I mean ask Orks how good the Kustom Force Field is now that anti-cover is pretty much -everywhere- (seriously, that needs to be an Invul bubble next codex).

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Mythra wrote:
The fields it would be all 5+ area terrain. So the whole board 5+ with maybe a catches fire special rule.

So Tau, Eldar, Guard, Whirlwinds, and anyone else I'm not thinking of who has "Ignores Cover" rules would own the board right?

And my Sisters would end up setting the board on fire turn 1. Probably because I like using Heavy Flamers.

HAHA sounds like the most fun game ever! plan your battles before hand! but never ever ever play on planet cue ball corn fields!

Makumba wrote:
only if something is charging in 6th it is most offten a FMC or something realy fast like scout bikers. I had games with LoS blocking terrain . They went like this . Turn one keeper of secret and 2 Demon Princes do an auto of LoS conga behing a central tower that blocks line of sight , one unit of scoting demons buffed by grimore parks itself in a position to charge me turn 2. My options are , move away from eagis and not get charged . move closer and get charged by the FMCs . Stand and have a chance to get charged by the FMCs and be charged by the dogs. I move away shot some dogs. Turn 2 sees his helldrake come up torrent my army and blow up one of my chimer while swooping , dogs charging and tar piting me. His FMC move behind another pillar in a position where they charge me next turn. my two vendettas show up I shot at drake and ground the keeper who is closes to my army , he saves . few dogs are locked in melee with my infantry section . my tanks move away from melee , the keeper has a +2inv , but still takes 2 wounds. Third turn his second drake comes in blows up one vendetta and almost kills the vets that were inside . keeper charges the vets . One DP with dark mace charges my blob and blows it up , the other one catchs my chimera and blows it up too.

The most effective counter to assault elements in an IG list is barrage, FRFSRF, and arranging your units like peels of an onion. Make sure the opponent cannot multi charge you easily and allow them to eat a 50 pts (55 pts with a flamer for overwatch) unit each turn. You don't want the units to hold their ground so expensive IC or commissars are not necessary. That or you can buff them up with inquisition and make blobb squads the match of anything in melee. I prefer letting my guys be eaten. BTW never back away from a wall, the opponent drops to I1 for assaulting you when you man it and you need the space to work with.

Also the IG struggle to move forward when they can be shot. Casualties coming from the front can make this impossible (in fact this killed the power blobb more than anything). Putting some LoS blocking terrain in the right places can allow IG to advance even in the face of a Tau army.

Makumba wrote:
no but I had a game with 6 squads of SMS armed crissis suits jumping out from behind a building which wasn't maned , so I couldn't shot at it , fire their weapons and then hide

Against nids it was simiular . He casts some psy powers and his 3 tyrants fly , shot then run out of LoS , his two crones hide behind one of the pillars . On turn two he pops up the tyrants again shots and hides with them with runing , his crones glance one of my chimera to death . Third turn when I come in I try to ground the tyrans but get LoS to only one and he passes the test , on his turn he starts a charge with 5 FMC and blows up my tanks and 2 vendettas with vets .

This is why you need some form of mobility and barrage in your lists. Think about it this way; there are 3 phases to this game, if you ignore the movement phase completely with a gunline type army are you really playing the game anymore? I can tell you, you have definitely stopped taking full advantage of the game and have made it vastly more boring for at least one of the players.

People have always hated playing against gun lines because of that factor.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
People have always hated playing against gun lines because of that factor.

I know I do. I feel like I'm the only one putting any effort into the game and they'd be much happier playing some kind of game like Civ 5 or Starcraft or something where they didn't have to physically move anything.

My op was considering SA rules in effect, and I don't understand all the hate against vehicles, armor 14 isnt exactly easy to crack, and I mean, if they pen then only on a D6 3,4,6, or 7 do they take damage. If they are in a building they always get their armor save. Every time I've played with them I've been able to put buildings to great use, of course my battlefields are sensible they arent vast open sprawls like you see in the codex's (which might I add are set up that way to show of models) A model on one end the field can't see to the other end of the field. To say that terrain is better for shooting armies than it is for assault armies... idk what game you play but it sure isnt the 40k i know