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@Hyozanman

The devs work fine for taking down a single flyer which is about the most i face in any game in my meta. 4 las and 4 melta and all of them can take down flyers with one hit-two hits. And i run a pure drop list because my alpha is strong and large enough to get first blood always, and so i can impeed movement to almost if not all of the objectives. Also i sometimes drop the las devs on the first drop, and i want my tactical squads to come in later in the game to objective grab. By starting the game with no troops on the field i will never lose my objective of first blood and by having marines continously come in i will always get line breaker and will grab most the mission objectives.

How do you do against CSM? They give my pod army's trouble with 2 Heldrakes and 2 - 9 Oblits. Sometimes allied with Fateweaker or more commonly a Bloodthrister with Grimoir.

What guaruntees you first blood against a heavy duty IG/am mech list with some expert blob bubble wraps? In my experience any even 6 drop pods can't always take out strong targets. Marines just don't have the firepower. Those devastators have to come in after the flier then snap shot at it. That isn't the best anti-air. I hope your meta favors infantry and non-heldrake spam.

Hq: Vulken 190
Command squad with 5 meltaguns and drop pod. 185

Elites: 10 sternguard 4 combi melta, sgt combi melta. 2 heavy Flamers, drop pod. (Always combat squaded. Flamers and meltas apart.) 335
dreadnought with MM and heavy flamer, drop pod 145

Troops: 2x 10 tactical,melta gun and multi melta and combi melta, drop pod 205x2. 410
10 tactical, flamer and multi melta and combi flamer, drop pod. 200
5 tactical, melta gun and combi melta, drop pod. 125
5 tactical, melta gun and combi melta, drop pod. 125

Fast attack 3x 5 man assault squad. 2 Flamers. drop pod. 95x3. 285

2000

I think a list like this would be a guarantee to get first blood.
With as much melta and Flamers in this list you can tackle any type of infantry. Mcs you could melta off the board. FMCs if you get first turn. Tanks will die cause the Flamers can destroy any blob you send to block them from any potential melta. And even super heavies you could drop in one turn of shooting even with cover saves.

Plus you can choose your target so why bother going for that one vehicle that's been blobbed around with infantry when you can target a unit thats vulnerable.

My $0.02

Nothing guarantees first blood. That's something I learned while playing my Salamanders.

There are too many factors, too many decisions, and too many dice to roll to guarantee it. I'd agree that with 11 pods and a good mix of flamers and meltas, you have a better chance than most armies, but far from guaranteed. All it takes it a psyker army with Forewarning on a large squad and your chances halve.

A large blob with full coherency and in ruins or multiple levels where your templates can't hit. Bubble wrapped mech with said blobs. LOS on a single model or two completely voids wounds allocation. Keep squishies in reserve. All hurt your first blood goal.

Riptides going first with 3++. Daemons with T5+ and invisibility. Seercouncil with rerolls to just about anything. There are a lot of factors, but going first or going second plays a bigger role in first blood.

I played in a GT a few weeks ago and I wounded with 9 meltas and did 2 wounds to his Burstide. He went first and got 3++ on ALL 4 riptides. (Ova'sastar) He bubbled wrapped his 2 Skyrays with the Star and 2 extra Iontides and kept the rest of his troops in reserve.

^ This being said only had 1 Command and 2 10man Sternguards on Turn1 but I had 13 Meltas in those 3 squads. I positioned correctly and only lost 2 Meltas in the intercept of those 3 Ions. With 11 meltas shots left, I wounded with 9, and he passed 7 3++. I know it's above average. But welcome to 40k. It's a game of dice. Hence, my point, you can't guarantee first blood.

Going first helps for First Blood, but it also limits your late game strategies. You're going first and he's gets the last shots and objective control. If you table them with your alpha and beta strike, you don't have to worry. But realistically, if he has mobile troops, you lost already. He can just move to the other side of the board and your army is left shooting 24" single-shot bolters for the rest of the game. I only have 3 pods in on turn1, because that's all I need to kill and weaken key targets. The Ravens with mobile scouts do most of my heavy lifting when it comes to playing to the objectives rather than the one goal of first blood that can fail. At that point (if you fail to get first blood), you spend the rest of the game hiding your warlord and flooding his deployment for linebreaker. If he foils your first blood plan and he has mobile troops/army, you basically lost on the primary.

Transports, low AV vehicles, small troop units, their are still a variety of targets to be had for first blood and every army will have some weakness to losing first blood to an alpha strike. Also i keep some of my tac squads back to assist with late grab objectives.

Its not a perfect list by any means but ive done extrodionarly well in my meta with it. And @hyo, thats a usual first drop but with 11 units, I have a large variety of combinations i can use for my first drop including my devs so they can be there round two if needed. Also @hyo, im playing my list with perfect comp so there is no way possible for me to play a heldrake in my tournaments as they are a comp point.

I just gave you 3 top tier armies that would give you trouble at giving you first blood. Granted they'd have to go first to cast their psyker powers or novacharge, but in those set-ups you'd fail to get first blood. After that, since it is a top tier GT list, they would have the army necessary to compete with you in both damage output and late game board control.

Interesting.

On a side note, I'm unfamiliar with how perfect comp works. How are they forbidden to take a heldrake?

Saythings wrote:
I just gave you 3 top tier armies that would give you trouble at giving you first blood. Granted they'd have to go first to cast their psyker powers or novacharge, but in those set-ups you'd fail to get first blood. After that, since it is a top tier GT list, they would have the army necessary to compete with you in both damage output and late game board control.

Interesting.

On a side note, I'm unfamiliar with how perfect comp works. How are they forbidden to take a heldrake?

I have 0 comp points in my army as its set up but someone who takes a heldrake has 1 for the heldrake. Basically the TO'shave assigned different values to troops based on how "fair" they are.

Also for eldar and tau getting lucky and pulling first blood, it happens its not the end of the world or my strategy. As for damage output and board control it is all based on jow they deploy, where objectives are, if you can drop units close enough to contest them, if they leave their supportive units unguarded, if they still have scoring models on the table. The list goes on and on. You cant predict every scenario but with the ability to block movements and majorly impair the enemy formations, squads, vehicles, mc's and battle plans on my alpha, my list tends to do well.

I want to play in your meta! A basic SM list plays against another basic army!! Sounds great for marines.

And, yes. I can't predict everything. Simply stating that going second against those 3 lists stinks! Podding in front of Tau/Daemons/Eldar will get first blood if you don't. haha.

Pretty much. It just makes you think about your list more.

And alot of armies can stink to go against but if you just play and focus on systematically taking down units/denying the enemy a chance to objective grab then the game gets alot easier.

Also in my 2250 list I run a Dark Eldar Ally with the Baron to help nab first turn. I may be a heretic but meh

But enough about me, how do other players run their drop pod armies?

I run 5 pods,1 Legion, and 2 Ravens with scouts inside.

1 Command, (4 M, Apoth)
10man Stern (6 C-M)
5man Stern (3 C-M)
5man Tac (C-M/M)
5man Tac (C-M/M)
Legions (with C-Grav/PG/PC)
Ravens (with MM/TLAC)
5man Scouts (x2)

I found that with 3 pods (on Turn1) I can do the necessary damage to hurt the enemy enough for my flyers (and other Turn2 help) to finish off what I need to. The Ravens give me AA that Salamanders need (imo) and late game mobility.

I've tried every number of pods from 13 to 3, and I've found 5 being the lucky number. The Ravens do a majority of the heavy lifting with the Ravens. Durable (when your alpha and beta strike kills the AA), Fast (36" with a Deepstrike option), and tons of AP2 with MM, Missiles, and Rending. I don't have the luxury of playing non-Heldrake lists due to a "balancing" comp points. I get to play against the best lists of 6th edition. That being said, I like my list, but everyone has a different style. I just adapted to this one.

Thats a good list but i feel like your too troop light, only 20 models of troops? And I`m a big fan of ravens too so i like the scout jumpcraft.

And i completely understand the whole trying different amounts of pods, i have 27 and ive tried alot of different combos with them haha. I just like the fun of putting 11 pieces of impassable terrain on the field too.

Plus the look on peoples face when they run to the TO because i play 100% reserves with pods. Thats always priceless haha.

As a pod army i live by my creed, "Lock, drop and give `em hell!"

I rarely lose because of lack of troops. It's mostly from lack of deployment or objective placement. Running null deployment is fun and has many advantages, unfortunately, it's 100% make or break on deployment. If you mess up your deployment, you're playing an uphill battle before you roll a die. Troops are going die regardless against any competitive list. The troops in the Ravens are the ones that last late game. I aim for the AA early and they usually doesn't last past turn2 if I'm doing it right.

It's weird because I ran 5 pods, 1 squad of bikes, and 2 Ravens with scouts (without pods obviously) and I still got away with null deployment. It's all in the details. Of course people questioned it. 3 outta 5 opponents at the GT got the judges and it's 100% legal. Most people just have trouble understand the rules. Of course, people are going to question it and I'm not going to go over why it's legal here. There are a lot of different null deployment army lists that can work that aren't full drop pods, just got to look in the details.

However, null deployment is a great, great tactic. Makes getting first blood a lot easier to get too. It also makes 3 pods, almost as effective as 6 pods. (If your goal is to get first blood). I love Ravens too much to give up the late game control and good AA. Full pod armies struggle against air too much for me to trust them in GT settings.

Something about dropping 6 pods turn1 is addicting, I just can't do it with Tau/Tau, Daemon/CSM, Eldar/DE, and the up-incoming AM lists with 6 pskyers and 2 fearless blobs. GTs and comp point lists are two completely different ball games unfortunately for me! :(

Edit: I suck at proofreading XD (Twice...)

ghilliemarine wrote:Thats a good list but i feel like your too troop light, only 20 models of troops? And I`m a big fan of ravens too so i like the scout jumpcraft.

And i completely understand the whole trying different amounts of pods, i have 27 and ive tried alot of different combos with them haha. I just like the fun of putting 11 pieces of impassable terrain on the field too.

Plus the look on peoples face when they run to the TO because i play 100% reserves with pods. Thats always priceless haha.

As a pod army i live by my creed, "Lock, drop and give `em hell!"

A better look is when they don't get to shoot on their first turn because you have no units on the board. I am playing a 100% Null list and i always try and go 2nd. The turn 1 Alpha strike must be fun but i feel the true power in a null list is to minimize 1-2 rounds of your enemy shooting. This is what I think of as a Beta Strike. It would be harder to pull off with a 100% Drop pod army though.

Saythings wrote:I rarely lose because of lack of troops. It's mostly from lack of deployment or objective placement. Running null deployment is fun and has many advantages, unfortunately, it's 100% make or break on deployment. If you mess up your deployment, you're playing an uphill battle before you roll a die. Troops are going die regardless against any competitive list. The troops in the Ravens are the ones that last late game. I aim for the AA early and they usually doesn't last past turn2 if I'm doing it right.

It's weird because I ran 5 pods, 1 squad of bikes, and 2 Ravens with scouts (without pods obviously) and I still got away with null deployment. It's all in the details. Of course people questioned it. 3 outta 5 opponents at the GT got the judges and it's 100% legal. Most people just have trouble understand the rules. Of course, people are going to question it and I'm not going to go over why it's legal here. There are a lot of different null deployment army lists that can work that aren't full drop pods, just got to look in the details.

However, null deployment is a great, great tactic. Makes getting first blood a lot easier to get too. It also makes 3 pods, almost as effective as 6 pods. (If your goal is to get first blood). I love Ravens too much to give up the late game control and good AA. Full pod armies struggle against air too much for me to trust them in GT settings.

Something about dropping 6 pods turn1 is addicting, I just can't do it with Tau/Tau, Daemon/CSM, Eldar/DE, and the up-incoming AM lists with 6 pskyers and 2 fearless blobs. GTs and comp point lists are two completely different ball games unfortunately for me! :(

Edit: I suck at proofreading XD (Twice...)

I think you have missed the true sweet spot # for pods, 1. My current list is very close to what you are playing. I just take your idea a bit further. I play 1 Drop Pod, 1 Raven, 2 Talons, and 1 Eagle. 2 Tactical (1 in Drop, 1 in Eagle), 1 Vanguard + Captain , Dread (All 3 in Raven), and a Techmarine. I use Raven Guard CT btw. I drop one Pod on my half of Turn 2 and bring the Pain on Turn 2. At the most my enemy has one turn of nothing shooting and a 2nd turn where he can only kill 1 Tac squad and Drop pod. That is 2 very disappointing shooting phases for him. I can also get real picky about where i do land my one Drop pod and hide the squad to help them survive or get aggressive and try and steal First blood.

here is a link to my list.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/592869.page