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But then what about granade without a profile. The very first section of the weapons part states all weapons have a profile. - And without a definition to actually go on how do we know if something is a weapon if it is not in the BRB?

There has to be something more concrete than just they are in the section called weapons. Especially as it can be proven least one of those items is defiantly not a weapon.

pg 50, every weapon has a profile. here are two examples.
gun
sword

then they list ranged weapons, melee weapons, grenades and read the bold under these headings.
just grenades, not grenade weapons and no mention of weapons in the bolded description. This is what I mainly base my conclusion on.

yet under vehicles and mostrous creatures, a model can use such a grenade as a melee weapon
it's used as a weapon, because it's not a weapon.

And some unusual grenades do not have a profile, ie not a weapon.

grenades and shooting "throw a grenade, rather than using another shooting weapon"
which does seem to equate throwing grenades to shooting weapons

to me it seems overall that grenades are not "weapons", but it really can go either way. Maybe it will be more clear in june

sirlynchmob wrote:
pg 50, every weapon has a profile. here are two examples.
gun
sword

then they list ranged weapons, melee weapons, grenades and read the bold under these headings.
just grenades, not grenade weapons and no mention of weapons in the bolded description. This is what I mainly base my conclusion on.

yet under vehicles and mostrous creatures, a model can use such a grenade as a melee weapon
it's used as a weapon, because it's not a weapon.

And some unusual grenades do not have a profile, ie not a weapon.

grenades and shooting "throw a grenade, rather than using another shooting weapon"
which does seem to equate throwing grenades to shooting weapons

to me it seems overall that grenades are not "weapons", but it really can go either way. Maybe it will be more clear in june

I see it much like that ^ from reading through. There are Shooting weapons and Melee weapons. (Lost of text, pretty pictures).... Oh there's grenades that act like a shooting weapon or melee weapon in certain situations, so they also make it into that section.

 Nem wrote:

Yet they fail to appear in the SM or CMS codex sections for weapons, I would not call them clearly defined as weapons for the reference in the index - in those areas they are also being defined as 'Melee weapons'. So for an entry that is listed as having for example;

o Close combat weapon
o Krak Granade

Do people give them 2 attacks in CC? Indeed why do they even need the entry of 'Close combat weapon' when apparently already have one...

After reading more I'm inclined to agree with Jinx.

I would say the reason you dont get an extra attack in CC with a grenade is because grenades are single use. You can't really swing a grenade around and hope it does as much damage as a sword. Plus, grenades explode, it would effect you in CC also

ghilliemarine wrote:

 Nem wrote:

Yet they fail to appear in the SM or CMS codex sections for weapons, I would not call them clearly defined as weapons for the reference in the index - in those areas they are also being defined as 'Melee weapons'. So for an entry that is listed as having for example;

o Close combat weapon
o Krak Granade

Do people give them 2 attacks in CC? Indeed why do they even need the entry of 'Close combat weapon' when apparently already have one...

After reading more I'm inclined to agree with Jinx.

I would say the reason you dont get an extra attack in CC with a grenade is because grenades are single use. You can't really swing a grenade around and hope it does as much damage as a sword. Plus, grenades explode, it would effect you in CC also

Actually the reason you don't get bonus attacks is because the rules for grenades specify you only get one attack.

sirlynchmob wrote:


grenades and shooting "throw a grenade, rather than using another shooting weapon"
which does seem to equate throwing grenades to shooting weapons

"throw a grenade, rather than using another shooting weapon"
The pivotal bit in italics.

Another shooting weapon.