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Except for the very clear diagram, Arc of Sight 2, that we are given and shows how hull-mounted weapons work, the rules definitely do not say anything about this.

The Taurox weapons are awful. They really should have just given it sponsons.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Though I wish this was in writing I believe this is the correct interpretation. A 45 degrees arc means the gun can swivel along a 45 degrees arc with its modeled position being the center point.

Yet there is nothing in the rules that actually says this.

Found the rules quote for your position yet?

We are told precisely what the arc for any hull mounted weapon is, and your definition is wrong, by the rules.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Though I wish this was in writing I believe this is the correct interpretation. A 45 degrees arc means the gun can swivel along a 45 degrees arc with its modeled position being the center point.

Yet there is nothing in the rules that actually says this.

Found the rules quote for your position yet?

We are told precisely what the arc for any hull mounted weapon is, and your definition is wrong, by the rules.

I didn't see a quote, mind re-posting it, or linking the post that has the quote?

The diagram shows how the arc is determined.

Found your quote that states this is only for "front mounted" hull weapons, like you so boldly claimed?

"Arc of sight 2" picture, in the vehicle section, shows the horizontal 45° swivel for a hull weapon as centered on/parallel to the main vehicle axis. Without any other data on the matter, we can safely assume it is a "standard" axis for any hull-mounted weapons.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
The diagram shows how the arc is determined.

Found your quote that states this is only for "front mounted" hull weapons, like you so boldly claimed?

So no actual rules quote?

I would say they've only got a narrow arc of fire. They appear pretty much welded to the sides. If it was me, I wouldn't attach those weapons to the model at all as it just doesn't look right.
I also imagine that this issue may come up in any FAQs on Astra Militarum/Tempestus.

 DeathReaper wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
The diagram shows how the arc is determined.

Found your quote that states this is only for "front mounted" hull weapons, like you so boldly claimed?

So no actual rules quote?

VEHICLE WEAPONS & LINE OF SIGHT wrote:...all hull-mounted weapons can swivel horizontally up to 45(degrees).

Notice how it does not say "swivel to each side" or "to the left or right"? Only up to 45 degrees.

The writers have provided the images to explain their rules to prevent this confusion, this isn't something that can be confused with fluff, but as a visual continuation of the rules.

 DeathReaper wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
The diagram shows how the arc is determined.

Found your quote that states this is only for "front mounted" hull weapons, like you so boldly claimed?

So no actual rules quote?

A picture is worth a thousand words.

It shows proper positioning of arc. Are you going to claim a diagram showing correct arc usage is not a rule? Purely because they're drawn not written? Even though a diagram is a far more efficient way of showing this?

I do apologise if this is inappropriate and will remove if necessary, but here is you RaW Quote, as it comes in the BrB:

As you can see: 45 degrees from the Weapon Centreline - You cannot turn that angle to the left or right per you picture.

 DeathReaper wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
The diagram shows how the arc is determined.

Found your quote that states this is only for "front mounted" hull weapons, like you so boldly claimed?

So no actual rules quote?

So you are claiming this is a valid firing arc for a vindicator:

 DeathReaper wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
The diagram shows how the arc is determined.

Found your quote that states this is only for "front mounted" hull weapons, like you so boldly claimed?

So no actual rules quote?

You first. You made a claim that "front mounted" hull weapons exist. Page and paragraph, or concede you lack any support at all.
further responses failing to prove your claim is concession

 BlackTalos wrote:

I do apologise if this is inappropriate and will remove if necessary, but here is you RaW Quote, as it comes in the BrB:

As you can see: 45 degrees from the Weapon Centreline - You cannot turn that angle to the left or right per you picture.

that weapon is clearly not at the center of that 45 degree arc.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
The diagram shows how the arc is determined.

Found your quote that states this is only for "front mounted" hull weapons, like you so boldly claimed?

So no actual rules quote?

You first. You made a claim that "front mounted" hull weapons exist. Page and paragraph, or concede you lack any support at all.
further responses failing to prove your claim is concession

Page 72, arc of sight 2 depiction.

It is from the centre of the mounting though. Do you have rules support for you redrawing of the arc so it does not use the centre line of the mounting for the centre of the arc?

nosferatu1001 wrote:
It is from the centre of the mounting though. Do you have rules support for you redrawing of the arc so it does not use the centre line of the mounting for the centre of the arc?

there is no rules support for the center of the mounting.

 DeathReaper wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
It is from the centre of the mounting though. Do you have rules support for you redrawing of the arc so it does not use the centre line of the mounting for the centre of the arc?

there is no rules support for the center of the mounting.

There is.
The diagram that goes with the rules.

 DeathReaper wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
It is from the centre of the mounting though. Do you have rules support for you redrawing of the arc so it does not use the centre line of the mounting for the centre of the arc?

there is no rules support for the center of the mounting.

Rules support? Ha! Says the guy who claims there is a thing called "side hull mounted" and "front hall mounted" and that they differ in rules.

Still waiting for you to cite where we can all find those rules.

 grendel083 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
It is from the centre of the mounting though. Do you have rules support for you redrawing of the arc so it does not use the centre line of the mounting for the centre of the arc?

there is no rules support for the center of the mounting.

There is.
The diagram that goes with the rules.

Okay, that diagram is fine for Hull mounted weapons on the front of the vehicle...

 DeathReaper wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
It is from the centre of the mounting though. Do you have rules support for you redrawing of the arc so it does not use the centre line of the mounting for the centre of the arc?

there is no rules support for the center of the mounting.

There is.
The diagram that goes with the rules.

Okay, that diagram is fine for Hull mounted weapons on the front of the vehicle...

Does a Hull-mounted weapon anywhere else on the vehicle follow different rules?

 DeathReaper wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
It is from the centre of the mounting though. Do you have rules support for you redrawing of the arc so it does not use the centre line of the mounting for the centre of the arc?

there is no rules support for the center of the mounting.

There is.
The diagram that goes with the rules.

Okay, that diagram is fine for Hull mounted weapons on the front of the vehicle...

So wait, are you telling me that IG/AM Hunter-Killer Missiles or Tau Seeker Missiles don't use the normal Hull mounted weapon rules?

Well please enlighten us, where can we find the rules they do use.

if you don't accept that it's relevant due to referring to the 'front hull mounted' weapon, then we'll take it to mean that it's 45 degree firing arc, with the centre aiming straight forwards, as per the diagram.

what's wrong with simply aiming the tank at what you want to shoot anyway? the guns point forwards; fire forwards. if the guns were mounted facing out completely sideways, would you be arguing that the 45 degrees should start where they're facing and swing only towards the front? no, because of where they're aiming.

it's a 45 degree with the centre aiming straight forward. oh boo-hoo, you have a blind spot. did you really think a truck with individual tracks instead oh wheels would be well designed?

 grendel083 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
It is from the centre of the mounting though. Do you have rules support for you redrawing of the arc so it does not use the centre line of the mounting for the centre of the arc?

there is no rules support for the center of the mounting.

There is.
The diagram that goes with the rules.

That diagram is a poor example.

That weapon can swivel freely, and that is the arc it can swivel through; The "hull mounted 45* arc" does not apply to that gun.

DR: you dids not address my post, is 45* from center to right a valid Firing Arc for the vindicator?
How about Center to Left?

Can I use both in the same game?

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
DR: you dids not address my post, is 45* from center to right a valid Firing Arc for the vindicator?

Sure, as the rules simply say 45 degree arc, what the actual traverse is, is for you to define, as the rules do not tell us.

How about Center to Left?

Sure, as the rules simply say 45 degree arc, what the actual traverse is, is for you to define, as the rules do not tell us.

Can I use both in the same game?

No. The rules simply say 45 degree arc, what the actual traverse is, is for you to define, as the rules do not tell us. But be consistent.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
DR: you dids not address my post, is 45* from center to right a valid Firing Arc for the vindicator?

Sure, as the rules simply say 45 degree arc, what the actual traverse is, is for you to define, as the rules do not tell us.

How about Center to Left?

Sure, as the rules simply say 45 degree arc, what the actual traverse is, is for you to define, as the rules do not tell us.

Can I use both in the same game?

No. The rules simply say 45 degree arc, what the actual traverse is, is for you to define, as the rules do not tell us. But be consistent.

 Nilok wrote:

VEHICLE WEAPONS & LINE OF SIGHT wrote:...all hull-mounted weapons can swivel horizontally up to 45°.

Notice how it does not say "swivel to each side" or "to the left or right"? Only up to 45°.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
DR: you dids not address my post, is 45* from center to right a valid Firing Arc for the vindicator?

Sure, as the rules simply say 45 degree arc, what the actual traverse is, is for you to define, as the rules do not tell us.

How about Center to Left?

Sure, as the rules simply say 45 degree arc, what the actual traverse is, is for you to define, as the rules do not tell us.

Can I use both in the same game?

No. The rules simply say 45 degree arc, what the actual traverse is, is for you to define, as the rules do not tell us. But be consistent.

So you are Saying the Tauox Prime is free to define the 45* from the left gun going left and then can only fire straight ahead and left across the front with the right gun?

I just realized that DeathReaper is arguing that the Tauox has an even bigger blind spot since both guns can't shoot at the same target at the same time.

Why is everyone assuming that the default facing of the gun on the Taurox is the middle of it's arc? I don't recall that ever being demanded in the BRB.

 Brachiaraidos wrote:
Why is everyone assuming that the default facing of the gun on the Taurox is the middle of it's arc? I don't recall that ever being demanded in the BRB.

Mainly because that is how it it is glued onto the vehicle. If it could swivel, there wouldn't be a problem, just point and shoot.

 Nilok wrote:

 Brachiaraidos wrote:
Why is everyone assuming that the default facing of the gun on the Taurox is the middle of it's arc? I don't recall that ever being demanded in the BRB.

Mainly because that is how it it is glued onto the vehicle. If it could swivel, there wouldn't be a problem, just point and shoot.

Huh, I was under the impression it did, much akin to a sponson weapon. Frankly, that's what it looks like it should be...

If they don't, looks like a conversion job when I get my two, then. Just for the sake of my sanity.

 Brachiaraidos wrote:

 Nilok wrote:

 Brachiaraidos wrote:
Why is everyone assuming that the default facing of the gun on the Taurox is the middle of it's arc? I don't recall that ever being demanded in the BRB.

Mainly because that is how it it is glued onto the vehicle. If it could swivel, there wouldn't be a problem, just point and shoot.

Huh, I was under the impression it did, much akin to a sponson weapon. Frankly, that's what it looks like it should be...

If they don't, looks like a conversion job when I get my two, then. Just for the sake of my sanity.

If it's a standard Taurox you're going for, just use the turret option. Problem solved