Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
I find the look of the miniatures can create a more relaxed atmosphere. I enjoy Relics, World of Twilight and the Quar range for a more laid back game.
I guess my one concern is that I'm looking for something easy and silly. I didn't ask "what is your favorite minis strategy game?" because the people I'm trying to introduce aren't hardcore strategy people (and I'd preferably want something that doesn't too heavily reward people with experience).
Rivet wars, for example, looks interesting, but on the main page it says, "By understanding all of your units’ strengths and weaknesses and those of your opponent you will counter your enemies’ advances and capture critical objectives to secure your victory. But choosing the wrong troops can lead to disaster, defeat, and possibly even your dismissal as commander!" which sounds like it's risking being too serious for what I'm going for. This is a concern I have with X-wing as well.
Anyways, thanks for more info. Looks like I'll have a busy weekend.
spaceelf wrote: I am surprised that noone mentioned DUST Warfare. Bust open some boxes, put the models on the table and play. The game plays quickly and is streamlined. The rules are fairly simple, but may be slightly more complex than what you are looking for.
As was mentioned above, Dreadball has simple rules. I would assume that Mars Attacks will also have simple rules.
I had considered mentioning DUST, but at the time it didn't seem exactly right. In any case, DUST is very simple for a wargame.
Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"
AlexHolker: "The power loader is a forklift. The public doesn't complain about a forklift not having frontal armour protecting the crew compartment because the only enemy it is designed to face is the OHSA violation."
AlexHolker: "Allow me to put it this way: Paramount is Skynet, reboots are termination attempts, and your childhood is John Connor."
I recently got Rivet Wars it looks like a lot of fun and not nearly as bad for learning as they make it sound. If you can understand point the cannons at tanks and the rifles at the infantry and your enemy will bring both you can easily understand what to deploy. After that its determining when to attack and when to hold back and when to use your action cards to achieve simple to understand goals. (Eg. capture a specific square, kill X unit/s, get X unit/s to a general area, etc.)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/22 17:22:22
I guess my one concern is that I'm looking for something easy and silly. I didn't ask "what is your favorite minis strategy game?" because the people I'm trying to introduce aren't hardcore strategy people (and I'd preferably want something that doesn't too heavily reward people with experience).
Fairy meat is also a pretty dope game. AND pretty silly.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And if you don't have fairy figs, then Kenzerco put out a sheet of printable fairy wings that you can just cut out and blutack to your existing minis!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/22 19:42:03
I guess my one concern is that I'm looking for something easy and silly. I didn't ask "what is your favorite minis strategy game?" because the people I'm trying to introduce aren't hardcore strategy people (and I'd preferably want something that doesn't too heavily reward people with experience).
Rivet wars, for example, looks interesting, but on the main page it says, "By understanding all of your units’ strengths and weaknesses and those of your opponent you will counter your enemies’ advances and capture critical objectives to secure your victory. But choosing the wrong troops can lead to disaster, defeat, and possibly even your dismissal as commander!" which sounds like it's risking being too serious for what I'm going for. This is a concern I have with X-wing as well.
Anyways, thanks for more info. Looks like I'll have a busy weekend.
X-wing can be really silly. It's easy to plan moves when your ships are facing away from you, but you can easily get all turned around and have ships turning the wrong way in the heat of battle. The "listbuilding" isn't really that big a deal, especially to casual players as how you move your ships around trumps all that anyway. Throw a couple asteroids in the way too and any plan you had goes to hell after initial contact with the enemy.
The movement mechanics (and action order) is some of the most refreshing gameplay mechanics I've used in a while. And it's star wars ships. Pew pew, and all.
Veriamp wrote:I have emerged from my lurking to say one thing. When Mat taught the Necrons to feel, he taught me to love.
Used to be free, unfortunately, a new edition has been published, and the editor has remove the free version from its website.
Although some rules are strangely written, it's a very streamlined and elegant system.
The movement phase could be summarized in only one sentence : spend an activation point to move a unit in any way you like, no corner of the unit shall moves more than its movement rate.
The combat/shooting phase could also be summarized in one sentence too : each side throw a dice and then apply relevant modifiers, higher score wins (apply result), if you double your opponent's score, it's an epic win (apply result).
There are several kinds of units : dragons, heroes, wizards, knights, light cavalery, spearmen, warbands, hordes, bowmen... even gods. Each type of unit has its cost, its strengths and weaknesses. Some move faster, others are potent fighters, some put their strength in numbers, some excell in the open field, some are best used in ambushes, some may be very strong or weak against a specific kind of opponent, etc.
As you can see on the previous link, you can use any mini you want, any scale you want, and build any army you want. Really. That's where the fun begins : http://www.matakishi.com/15mmrockarmy.htm
There's a catch : the units are pretty much standardized. A unit of Knights is a unit of Knights, period. One unit of Chaos Knights would thus have exactly the same characteristics as one unit of Bretonnian Knights, a unit of Cygnar Storm Lances, a unit of Rohirrim Knights or that unit of mouses mounted on domesticated cats.
sing your life wrote:Warmachine is a really fun game. Wizards fighting with their steampunk robots.
The concept sounds like silly fun, but the game is actually very cut through when you start thinking about how you actually lose and win it. I wouldn't recommend it for the OP at all.
I'd go with something by Ganesha Games, or if you want to use an existing 40k collection, In The Emperor's Name.
Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better.
This would be my suggestion. I can teach someone to play SBH and have a game going in about 10 minutes using pre-built armies without many special abilities. It's super easy and yet fun and surprisingly tactical.
While as a Zombicide fan, I support the earlier suggestions, it is a board game with miniatures and not an "light" minis game as requested by the OP. Also, Season 2 Prison Outbreak can get rules-heavy compared to the original base set. While I like the Berzerker zombies and new equipment, the new special rules have bogged the game down. Admittedly, you do not have to use them, but then you lose the prison flavor. IMO, it's best to start with the original set and then add Zombicide: Toxic City Mall if you like the game. Besides, there are more scenarios (official and fan-made) posted at the official website that use the original Zombicide map tiles than there are for Prison Outbreak tiles. They are free downloads, as are the record cards for the promo Survivors.
As for the suggestion of Malifaux ... yikes. While I like the game, it is not for the casual gamer! The OP is correct in rejecting it for his group.
As mentioned, few game systems are as simple in principle as the DB family of games (DBA, DBM, HotT, Mighty Armies...). Rules are simple enough to be summarized on one sheet (double sided). There are lists for all sorts of armies from historical, fantasy, sci fi and others. You can play in any scale (though, you can play any game in any scale...but some people seem to get hung up on it if it isnt called out in the rules). Lots of companies offer army packs where you can buy the entire army for $30 or less (15mm scale).
On the silly side of things, there are a lot of options. A lot of the Song of series of games are played using figures like mouslings from Reaper. Pride of Lions from Splintered Light doesnt take itself too seriously. Gnome Wars from Brigade has some figures that prevent you from getting to focused on gaming. Christmas Wars is ridiculous on many levels and has become a holiday tradition in our group. Critter Commandos is a parody of games like 40K.
Zombicide. Everything you need in a couple of boxes and you to could be rolling fists of dice as your office worker sprays duel uzis into a zombie horde from the back of a pimped caddy (piece of cardboard).
Shockforce is a d6 scifi ruleset from 20 years ago that you may want to give a try. The mechanics are simple (roll higher than your opponent to succeed) and the rules let you convert any figs you want to it. You can make things more complicated by adding traits (that give you rerolls or minimum rolls for dice) but it's not mandatory. There are free legal downloads out there on the internet (don't have the link at the moment) and you can usually find the old paper copies cheap online for sale. If you want deep strategy, don't pick this one up... but silly and easy fits the bill. You can probably even find online complete fan conversion lists from 2nd and 3rd edition 40k back when the game was on sale if you if you don't want to make up the stats yourself. The most cumbersome thing about the whole thing is making up the stats.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/23 15:29:38
I see lots of boardgames mentioned, but if you want to stay wargame-y I've got the feeling FUBAR is your game. Quick, simple and customizable 1-page rules. And you can still use your Warhams in it, which is always a plus.
If you want to switch scales, though, either GRUNTZ 15mm (sci-fi) or HoTT (fantasy) will do.
War does not determine who is right - only who is left.
Probably the sixth mention of it, but Song of Blades and Heroes. The name sounds goofy, the art is rather bad, but the mechanics are super fun and innovative and most importantly simple to teach. Activation is risk-reward based, models have a point value, quality, and combat score (and that's it). Moving can be done with pre-cut sticks of a few lengths. Tons of customization depending on what genre you like. The PDF is dirt cheap and they provide free updates when revisions are made. At this point it's the "go to" skirmish game for introduction people to minis and terrain and that kind of thing. It's worth checking out just to get a feel for the kind of rule innovations that have been made in the last decade.
Song of Blades and Heroes
You mentioned "old Battletech", but you might want to check it out again. They have a reasonably priced boxed starter set, the rules are still solid, and every new gamer I've played with liked filling in little armor circles on their sheets. Hex maps might be a bit less overwhelming too.
Battletech intro box
In the same vein of mech games, there is Mech Attack, which I bought on a whim but have had lots of fun with. They basically distill the key elements of classic Battletech (heat, ablative armor, lots of weapons) but take out some of the slowness. They use a really cool damage system similar to the old Crimson Legion from FASA, not sure if you've heard of that, but basically your armor is a grid, and weapons have a certain pattern that you fill in. So for example a laser will cut deep but narrow into the armor grid, whereas a shotgun would pepper the top layer of your entire grid. This whole "Armor Grid" system is so important that they include it in the title, haha.
Mech Attack
Someone mentioned the Judge Dredd miniatures game, and it's actually a pretty nice D10 based system. The rulebook is top notch too with fun art and styling.
Judge Dredd (Mongoose version)
Somewhat less silly would be Force on Force, which is built for modern day combat. I think you could cut out the pieces you didn't like, as the core system is fun and does a good job with a variety of forces.
Force on Force
And finally I'd say the venerable game The Sword and the Flame. Their website looks junky, as my understanding is they are a more hands on company. But the rules are great for simplicity and leveraging a lot of easy to understand mechanics. For example activation is done by drawing playing cards. Combat is a simple roll off. Makes for very quick resolving games.
The Sword and the Flame
warboss wrote: Shockforce is a d6 scifi ruleset from 20 years ago that you may want to give a try.
SHOCKFORCE is awesome fun and a bit silly. I used to demo for it and I wrote a few of the coversion lists you mentioned.
There is also SHOCKFORCE 2nd Edition and GWAR miniatures game, which is basically SHOCKFORCE 2nd Edition with different factions, themed around the band GWAR.
The core rules were renamed WAR ENGINE after Y2K. The setting of SHOCKFORCE involved Corporations overtaking the government after exploiting the Y2K bug to infiltrate everything. WAR ENGINE has been released in various partial forms on the web ever since and the creators keep promising to release a new game, but it never happened.
CORPORATION FORCES - Think Imperial guard
SHOCK SISTERS - Helmeted females in powered armor
THE ORGANIZATION - ORGS for short - Organized Crime Faction of mutated human subrace that look like ORKS and GRETCHIN
MUTANTS - Tounge in cheek mutants, including goat ment, lead by leather clad DOMINATRIX and muscle bound DOMINATORS. S&M Themed heavies.
THE SCARLET BRETHEREN - White supremacists become human supremacists in a future with mutants. Rednecks, slutty chicks in Dazy Dukes, and Klu Klux Klan looking fellows, with a redneck on a Tractor for heavy support.
GOTHRATS - Rats in the sewers mutated like Master Splinter, but with 100% less turtle friends. Think Skaven with modern weapons.
VENGEQUAN - Native Americans mutated slightly to become more Elflike and magic wielding.
DEADTECH - nanotech virus infected gunslinging zombie cowboys. What happens when rich insane people control advanced medical technology and like cowboys too much.
I was going suggest the Kings of War ruleset as it's pretty simple and you could use Fantasy or LotR's models, but if you are keen on going down the 40k route perhaps just sticking with Kill Team is a good idea.
Slow familiarisation with special rules and the game in general would probably make it a better start to move on to 40k than a completely different ruleset.
warboss wrote: Shockforce is a d6 scifi ruleset from 20 years ago that you may want to give a try.
SHOCKFORCE is awesome fun and a bit silly. I used to demo for it and I wrote a few of the coversion lists you mentioned.
Shockforce is an extremely fun game that is easy to learn and teach. The core rules system that is available for free is called "Warengine". The shock force universe is 40k style goofy, and in fact has many analogues for 40k miniatures. I don't know if the Shockforce fluff is still free, but the rules and army lists (you can also make your own using the rules for army creation) are available for free from the WarEngine yahoo group.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/WarEngine/info Once you join the group, head to the files section for the rules.
It's a completely different rule system than 40k, but has a similar balance of close combat and ranged combat so it works well for games in that universe. Alot easier to learn though.
It doesn't' handle anything bigger than light vehicles, but it's a really fun set of rules for any sci-fantasy miniatures gaming.
Ailaros wrote: So, for how much griping and moaning there is about 40k and fantasy not being serious strategy games (as if this is somehow new), I'm actually finding myself with a problem that goes in the reverse direction.
There are some people I'm interested in getting into mini-wargaming, and 40k might be good fit, but it is a bit... cumbersome? Even if you start small, there's still a lot of rules and a lot of minis and a lot of fluff, etc. etc. So I was looking for something a bit... smaller. Meanwhile, said people are not the hyper-competitive feel-the-burn, lose a lot because that's the only way I can get better types. They're just sort of normal people, who are going to be somewhat put off by failing to notice an endless series of subtle tricks and tactics that causes them to lose.
That means that I'm looking for something that's just sort of lightweight and fun. Preferably something that can have the same kind of silliness of 40k (or moreso) draped over a simple set of mechanics that people who have no background in miniatures or wargamming can sort of just pick it up and play around with it. Build up some comfort and familiarity before moving on to something richer or more strategic.
Unfortunately, my experience isn't all that terribly broad, and it's somewhat out of date (I remember old battletech, for example). I'm sure that in this general gaming renaissance we've had over the last 5-10 years, something has been produced that meets this criteria, but I've been spending that time more or less exclusively buried in 40k.
Anyone have any suggestions, or should I just bite the bullet and try to adapt 40k kill team?
At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money.
X-Wing is one of the best games out there at the moment which is able to cross the boardgamer / wargamer divide.
Heck, it's even been played on Tabletop.
Of course, if you're a trekkie/er there's also Star Trek Attack Wing which is based on the same system. The models look worse, however it does let you have multiway games more easily.
Another one, which is more anime-ish inspired that has been done on tabletop is Krosmaster Arena. - It's not my kind of thing, but it fits your requirements.
However, as I'm a massive Mantic fan, when it comes out, I think this will fit the bill perfectly...
I went and got myself a copy of blade and heroes just because it's cheap and was recommended more than once. I'll definitely keep researching into everything people are talking about.
I do have another parameter I'd like to add, now that I've already gotten so many suggestions. In addition to the OP, I'm wondering, which games work better co-operatively? This might be a pretty long shot, I know, but I'm wondering if anything does that well single-player, or two players playing on the same side.
There's a large gaming subculture of solo wargamers. You have a few different approaches for getting that done:
Mechanics that contol the other side. Simple things like the close combat guys always moving towards the closest enemy and attacking. Or "stick together" rules where if one guy moves the next guy will attempt to get into base to base contact.
The D&D board games like Castle Ravenloft were like this. For miniature wargames I know that Two Hour Wargames has some titles like All Things Zombie where the zombies are all mechanically controlled while the players control the survivors.
Play both sides and try to be fair. Pretty straight forward. Often it'll be combined with a premade plan and then you try to stick with it. So if the enemy is attacking and they have a general idea about your deployment, their plan might be to send everything at the right side of your line, break it and then mop up the rest. Then you just try to faithfully execute the plan.
Randomization. By dice or computer or whatever. There's actually another gamer subculture in roleplaying games where people either play solo or the role of the DM/GM is handled using randomization. I've played cooperative wargames using the same computer tools those players use. Often it's about how to frame the question when using a magic 8 ball. Here's a site that integrates a bunch of these sort of tools for free:
Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better.
I'd be interested in a list of co-op Wargames as well, if any spring to anyone's mind. For me, other than board games, the only one that comes immediately to mind is The Department.
Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"
AlexHolker: "The power loader is a forklift. The public doesn't complain about a forklift not having frontal armour protecting the crew compartment because the only enemy it is designed to face is the OHSA violation."
AlexHolker: "Allow me to put it this way: Paramount is Skynet, reboots are termination attempts, and your childhood is John Connor."
Ailaros wrote: Wow. Once again, thank you so much, everybody.
I went and got myself a copy of blade and heroes just because it's cheap and was recommended more than once. I'll definitely keep researching into everything people are talking about.
I do have another parameter I'd like to add, now that I've already gotten so many suggestions. In addition to the OP, I'm wondering, which games work better co-operatively? This might be a pretty long shot, I know, but I'm wondering if anything does that well single-player, or two players playing on the same side.
You can play virtually any game single player, but games designed for single player "solo" gaming usually have a bit more complex rules. Probably the best solo-playable wargames come from Two Hour Wargames. Virtually all the THW games share a similar "Reaction" system which is a bit more complicated, but not terribly so and definitely no more than some of the games mentioned in this thread. They are specifically designed to work as well solo as with 2 players. There are THW games for nearly every genre and scope of play.
http://www.twohourwargames.com/ They also offer a "Chain Reaction" ruleset for free.
http://www.twohourwargames.com/free.html It has the same basic system as their other games, so if you like it, you'll like them. If you don't like it, then steer clear of THW.
As for multiplayer, Song of Blades does tend to slow down a bit with more than 3 players, and I've never tried it with one. Even with 4 it's faster than most other games, but more than 4 individual players each going for themselves (and having to activate separately) becomes a real slog. When we get together it's usually much more fun to take advantage of the quickness of a 2 player game and play many games, switching players each time. You can virtually play a whole mini-campaign in a long evening.
For cooperative, it works best if one side plays the GM side, and everyone else plays the good guys. This allows all the good guys to take their turn together while the GM side (often more than one player) will use their turn to activate the various monsters that the heroes warbands are facing. This keeps it running almost as fast as a 2 player game. Another option is to run it as a dungeon game with a GM vs a couple players. We've done this and enjoyed it and the "Song of Gold and Darkness" supplement has some good material for this type of game.
In The Emperor's name works quite well with multiplayer, but again, some of the fun is being able to do several games in one night and take advantage of the nice campaign system.
Legion: Dark Angels 
