Are Snipers really that bad?

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**Sigvatr**

Pinning from Sniper was about as useful as Fear. In the actually-not-grim future, most enemies have LD 10 or Fearless anyway.

**ErikSetzer**

Sigvatr wrote:
Pinning from Sniper was about as useful as Fear. In the actually-not-grim future, most enemies have LD 10 or Fearless anyway.

I think it's pretty much: "In the grim darkness of the far future, everyone's seen so much grimdark that it just doesn't bother them any more. Nothing bothers them. Because nothing really matters, man. There's no meaning to life. There is only war..."

**Sigvatr**

Sounds like the start of a sad Blood Angels poem to me!

**Zodiark**

Big Blind Bill wrote:
They have different jobs depending on the army.

SM scouts are best at sitting backfield and hiding, and possibly dealing 1 or 2 wounds over the whole game thanks to their poor BS and low number of shots.
They have a poor reputation because some people take them and expect them to deal with MCs. If you treat them like a scoring unit who hides in cover and occasionally do a wound to a tough model then you won't be disappointed.

Tau sniper drones or Necron deathmarks on the other hand are more offensive due to their increased firepower, have greater maneuverability and special rules which can support them(Tau etheral giving 3 shots, hunters from hyperspace for necrons).
Having BS 4/5 is a great improvement too.

I don't feel the lose of pinning is too important. Most targets I shot against were either bikes/ fearless/ Daemons anyway, so pinning rarely came into play.

Taking them as Scouts and as an annoyance factor, don't expect them to do much, just like cheap and annoying.

**Warmonger2757**

Sigvatr wrote:

Deathmarks are only viable when into a Death & Despair squad and they aren't viable because of them being Snipers but because of their special rule that allows them to hit on a 2+.

They wound on a 2+, not hit on a 2+.

Being able to wound on a 4+ against against an unmarked MC is still pretty good (2+ if he's marked makes them incredible). Yeah the despairtek makes them amazing but even without, Deathmarks are still pretty good. No other snipers I can think of have a 3+ armour save, rapid fire, deep strike on your opponent's turn (if he deep strikes), and of course the Deathmark itself. Oh and don't forget the Nightscythe as a dedicated transport.

**tau tse tung**

I run a SWT of 3 snipers, the hits on a MC or popping a captian from a squad i love, but alas its a little rare, yet for around 30 points its well worth it. If you hide them well the enemy is also unlikely to kill them.

**Belly**

I occasionally take my 5 Eldar Rangers to games. They are primarily for camping an objective or denying scoutmoves.

They rarely last the game, and MAYBE get a kill or two. Don't expect them to do much, unless you're facing a particularly badly built army. Like footslogging marines, etc.

**phantommaster**

I run Raven Guard and don't use tactical squads. My troops often consist of two squads of 5 scout snipers with camo and one poison heavy bolter. That heavy bolter really pulls them up. With people spamming mc's and putting characters in to buff squads they can be really handy to remove the important guys. Backed up by a missile launcher dev squad and a defense line you're looking at a pretty damn good baseline for your army. Not only this, but with camo and a defense line those scouts are getting 2+ cover turn one, and 3+ beyond. Going to ground gets you back to that 2+ so they can be surprisingly hard to shift.