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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/29 04:39:53
Subject: Twin Linking - makes no sense to me
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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Twin-linking is simply a game mechanism that allows the designer to give a different kind of bonus to a model. Instead of more shots you get more accuracy but in effect reduced damage. The maths make it less of an advantage the higher the BS of the shooter.
GW have tied it in with the "rule of cool" by applying it to a number of weapons that they have given double-barrels.
IRL there are various reasons why a gun or firing battery has multiple barrels.
To increase ROF.
To improve the chance of a hit.
To cover a wider area.
In the case of a double-barrelled rifle or shotgun, it allows you to keep tracking the target and immediately shoot again if you missed. This is particularly important if you are shooting at big game like elephants or tigers that might be charging at you.
There are occasions when "twin-link" doesn't make sense but that is just the designer's choice balanced by the points costs.
Can you imagine for example the mess that a triple twin-linked laser cannon Predator would make of monstrous creatures or units of high value infantry Terminators if given six shots rather than three?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/29 05:01:09
Subject: Twin Linking - makes no sense to me
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Frightening Flamer of Tzeentch
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Like I've stated earlier, I understand why twin-linking was handled the way it was for balance purposes (also where are you getting three twin-linked lascannons on a predator? One twin-linked turret mounted, two singe sponsons), but from a realistic standpoint;
This gun fires X shots in a given time frame. That's X chances to cause damage in said time frame. Now, if I twin-link this gun, it has two of the same mechanism. I now fire 2X shots, and should have 2X chances for causing damage. The way the rules are now, it states you're firing 2X shots, but only have X chances to inflict damage, but have a higher chance to hit your target. Shouldn't it be that they fire as a single weapon (precedent; hurricane bolter) and have the points cost raised appropriately? It's higher risk/reward, but makes more sense.
In short; more dakka as opposed to more accurate dakka for 2 barrels makes more sense. I don't claim to have an answer to how this would affect storm bolters/twin-linked bolters.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/29 10:37:09
Subject: Twin Linking - makes no sense to me
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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I mixed up the Predator sponsons with the Land Raider. There are three twin-linked lascannons on the Vendetta (?) which shows the point.
The multiple-shot mechanism also exists in the game, of course. The Assault Cannon for example gives you four (?) to hit rolls for one "shot". I think storm bolters used to be two dice per shot.
One reason it is good for the designers to have two alternative mechanisms is that the D6 roll is not fine grained enough to generate much distinction between weapons.
If you rolled D100 per shot, you could for example say the storm bolter fires a 10 round burst with a base accuracy of 11% giving a 110% chance of a hit so you get one hit and a 10% chance of a second hit.
In the real world, most twin-linked weapons are light anti-aircraft mounts which are designed with multiple barrels to increase the ROF and increase the chance of a hit by filling up a larger volume of sky. (It also allows them to suffer a breakdown of one barrel and continue firing.)
Generally speaking though, if you have a good chance of a hit with one shot it is better to make that shot a more powerful one than have a good chance of a hit with two shots.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/29 11:02:11
Subject: Twin Linking - makes no sense to me
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Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot
Israel
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Kilkrazy wrote:If you rolled D100 per shot, you could for example say the storm bolter fires a 10 round burst with a base accuracy of 11% giving a 110% chance of a hit so you get one hit and a 10% chance of a second hit.
Probabilities don't work that way...
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6,000pts (over 5,000 painted to various degrees, rest are still on the sprues) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/29 15:16:36
Subject: Twin Linking - makes no sense to me
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Storm Trooper with Maglight
Breslau
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Imho blast weapons should not benefit from twin-linking because at the moment the 'effect' is very arbitrary and doesn't have anything to do with, say, a single mortar twin-linked by prescience. Now it just serves as 'that kind of gameplay effect' rather than actual thing.
Single-shot blast weapons should not be able to get twin-linked, and those that have twin-linked guns, like Wyverns, should instead get another shot with barrage rule and proper point adjustment to reflect the changes.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/30 12:30:17
Subject: Twin Linking - makes no sense to me
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Klerych wrote:Imho blast weapons should not benefit from twin-linking because at the moment the 'effect' is very arbitrary and doesn't have anything to do with, say, a single mortar twin-linked by prescience. Now it just serves as 'that kind of gameplay effect' rather than actual thing.
Single-shot blast weapons should not be able to get twin-linked, and those that have twin-linked guns, like Wyverns, should instead get another shot with barrage rule and proper point adjustment to reflect the changes.
I'll happily take StrD Heavy 4 Large Blast on my Scorpion
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Eldar: 8,560
Tyranid: 2,397
Tau: Soon... |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/30 12:37:55
Subject: Re:Twin Linking - makes no sense to me
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Been Around the Block
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It's an abstraction for gameplay. If things were to be realistic, I doubt a boltgun would have a range of around 24m.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/30 12:58:09
Subject: Re:Twin Linking - makes no sense to me
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Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot
Israel
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Doombunny wrote:It's an abstraction for gameplay. If things were to be realistic, I doubt a boltgun would have a range of around 24m.
I've come across scenes where SMs were scoring head shots at 2km with Bolters (hell, there was one scene where the SM had the round ricochet off an angled surface to score a head shot against a target behind cover 2km out  ).
Tabletop ranges are most definitely gross abstractions, otherwise your average space marine would've had 2-3 times the effective range of in IG veteran ( IG marksmen with lasguns are known to reliably score hits at ranges of up to 900m).
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6,000pts (over 5,000 painted to various degrees, rest are still on the sprues) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/30 15:49:40
Subject: Twin Linking - makes no sense to me
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Lesser Daemon of Chaos
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Makes decent sense to me. If you are firing two guns that are parallel, it is impossible/unlikely for them to hit the same point. Thus you can not score 2 hits instead of 1. You are however putting 2 shots instead of 1 in the general area of the target so you are more likely to hit.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/30 17:08:02
Subject: Re:Twin Linking - makes no sense to me
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Veteran Inquisitor with Xenos Alliances
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Doombunny wrote:It's an abstraction for gameplay. If things were to be realistic, I doubt a boltgun would have a range of around 24m.
As abstractions go, GW said at one point in the past that ranges on the tabletop are disproportionate. By that they mean 4ft might represent 2 miles, 1ft is 200 yard, 6 inches is 20 yards... They don't scale, and key ranges just sorta represent key increments on the battlefield.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/30 19:40:50
Subject: Twin Linking - makes no sense to me
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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Galorian wrote: Kilkrazy wrote:If you rolled D100 per shot, you could for example say the storm bolter fires a 10 round burst with a base accuracy of 11% giving a 110% chance of a hit so you get one hit and a 10% chance of a second hit.
Probabilities don't work that way...
Games do though.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/30 20:33:38
Subject: Twin Linking - makes no sense to me
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Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot
Israel
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Kilkrazy wrote: Galorian wrote: Kilkrazy wrote:If you rolled D100 per shot, you could for example say the storm bolter fires a 10 round burst with a base accuracy of 11% giving a 110% chance of a hit so you get one hit and a 10% chance of a second hit.
Probabilities don't work that way...
Games do though.
Averages kinda do, if you say 1.1 hits instead of 110% chance- Chance is a term for probabilities, which can never rise to above 100%.
The chance to land a single hit with 10 shots, each one with an 11% chance of hitting, would be 38.5%, the chance to land two hits would be 21.4%, the chance of missing with all shots would be 31.2% and the chance of hitting with all shots would be 0.000000026%.
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6,000pts (over 5,000 painted to various degrees, rest are still on the sprues) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/30 20:42:19
Subject: Twin Linking - makes no sense to me
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Battleship Captain
Oregon
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I always thought that twin linking should double the # of shots put out but reduce BS by 1 to account for the "spray and pray" firing.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/01 02:39:37
Subject: Twin Linking - makes no sense to me
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Stalwart Dark Angels Space Marine
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one of my games I casted the psychic power in divination the allowed re-rolls to hit , on a twin-linked lascannon razorback, with the mysterious objective being a targeting relay was rather intresting
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for the lion!!
3000+ painted
8th edition 23-12-3 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/01 02:49:06
Subject: Twin Linking - makes no sense to me
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Regular Dakkanaut
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tmo38 wrote:one of my games I casted the psychic power in divination the allowed re-rolls to hit , on a twin-linked lascannon razorback, with the mysterious objective being a targeting relay was rather intresting
Interesting because you get to choose which *one* of those things allows you your only re-roll?
Only one re-roll makes me sad sometimes, when I have the opportunity to pointlessly stack stuff like that
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Eldar: 8,560
Tyranid: 2,397
Tau: Soon... |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/01 10:37:14
Subject: Twin Linking - makes no sense to me
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Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot
Israel
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majendie wrote: tmo38 wrote:one of my games I casted the psychic power in divination the allowed re-rolls to hit , on a twin-linked lascannon razorback, with the mysterious objective being a targeting relay was rather intresting
Interesting because you get to choose which *one* of those things allows you your only re-roll?
Only one re-roll makes me sad sometimes, when I have the opportunity to pointlessly stack stuff like that 
Would be rather hilarious having a prescient Vindicare man a pre skyfire nerf quad gun while joined by someone that grants preferred enemy (everything) if these all stacked- you'd have a 0.013% chance of missing each shot and a 0.05% chance of missing at least one shot out of 4.
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6,000pts (over 5,000 painted to various degrees, rest are still on the sprues) |
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