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Well let's look at the actual figures against other stuff you can use against AV14 in the Necron dex. Lets look at some of the options:

260 Points = 0.77 HPs at 48" threat range 0.389 pens and 1? 3 at 36" range.

260 points of Warriors: 2.22 @ 30" 4.44 @ 18"

190 StormWarriors in a Scythe: 3.33" @ 42" threat range

StormVeil Court 105 points: 6.67 with unlimited reach

Let's not even talk about Wraiths and Dlord. Sorry but the Destroyers are just never going to be worth 260 points. I keep coming back to that because that is a huge price tag for a mediocre unit. I'm trying to make it sink in how much the unit costs because you seem oblivious.

I also never stated everyone should have 6 Barges. But that 3 Barges is a better spend of points than that Destroyer unit by a massive distance. You get 3 units which helps with MSU you get more firepower against everything except 2+ save MCs with no invun or cover (against AV13 the Barges do 2.67 HPs compared to the 1.68 that the Destroyers do in the 24" bubble against a Dreadknight or Riptide the Barges do 2.27 wounds compared to 1.71 from the Destroyers and these are the targets you are crowing about working against) and you you get arc with further helps against MSU and you get AA and it can be part of either an armoured front or Cronair denying your opponents poison shots any targets.

To be honest I'm pretty shocked I even have to bring this up. When 6th dropped a lot of Necron players tried Destroyers due to the change in PE and they just aren't worth it. Far far too many points for what you get from them.

Yeah, other things in the Necron Codex are good against AV14, albeit at shorter ranges. That's kind of why I mentioned that AV14 is far from Destoryers specialty, just something they can chip in against (and one of the few units that has a reasonable chance to Pen it).

Let's not even talk about Wraiths and Dlord.

You are better off not...

I keep coming back to that because that is a huge price tag for a mediocre unit. I'm trying to make it sink in how much the unit costs because you seem oblivious.

Yeah, I've used the unit hundreds of times but I'm oblivious to the cost. You've made it incredibly clear you have no idea how to keep this unit alive and get the most out of it. If you can get 6 turns out of your HDs but only 2 turns out of your ABs, it makes a pretty big difference on rating the units damage output. But you are stuck in imaginary theory craft world where LOS and movement don't matter, and everything only ever shoots one turn. It's kind of embarrassing.

I also never stated everyone should have 6 Barges.

Okey dokey.

But that 3 Barges is a better spend of points than that Destroyer unit by a massive distance.

Sure it is.

You get 3 units which helps with MSU you get more firepower against everything except 2+ save MCs with no invun or cover

They don't still have an advantage with ++ or cover?

(against AV13 the Barges do 2.67 HPs compared to the 1.68 that the Destroyers do in the 24" bubble

The HDs also do close to a Pen/salvo, particularly against Crons, the most prevalent user of AV 13, that's pretty relevant.

The HDs also considerably out range the ABs. But keep ignoring that. It makes your vacuum math look more realistic.

against a Dreadknight or Riptide the Barges do 2.27 wounds compared to 1.71 from the Destroyers and these are the targets you are crowing about working against) and you you get arc with further helps against MSU and you get AA and it can be part of either an armoured front or Cronair denying your opponents poison shots any targets.

Again, at much shorter ranges. Out in the open. Where the entire army can return fire on them and they will die by the end of turn 2. Do you actually play this game in real life or do you just talk about it on the internet?

To be honest I'm pretty shocked I even have to bring this up. When 6th dropped a lot of Necron players tried Destroyers due to the change in PE and they just aren't worth it. Far far too many points for what you get from them.

Really? The only people on this forum that I have talked to that use them extensively have found them quite adequate. You just have to learn the finer points of the game first, like movement, range, and LOS and stuff. You'll get it eventually. Keep math hammering them ABs in the meantime. They are plenty efficient unit. Just stick to the units you know, I guess.

The problem I seem to find with necrons is they rely on taking re-animation protocols. That being said I really try to shy away from units that don't have very many wounds because when you don't have any more wounds in the squad obviously you can not take a re animation roll.

A destroyer can have anywhere from 1-5, 1-3 in the case of heavy destroyers. These are not very big wound pools to pull from. And with only tough 5 to support them there is plenty out there that wounds on a roll of 2+ and ignores your amor 3+.

I find warriors with gauss are a more effective and durable vehicle killer and can serve all battlefield rolls, as for no serous creatures it depends what you're dealing with, there are situations where wound saturation can be effective but I will say preferred enemy s9 against a wraithnight for example is very tempting.

I have found destroyers to be under performers in my armies in 6th edition. I haven't rule them much in 7th because I find I can kill space marine equivalents just fine without them. Just my opinion.


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I haven't run them much in 7th. *


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As far as Monstrous creatures.


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And three barges is absolutely a more effective way to spend points then destroyers. Every single time.


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9 hull points on av13 shooting 12 twinlinked s7 tesla shots, an additional 6 s6 tesla is both more durable and more damaging than a full squad of destroyers any day.

So if you think spending 260 points on a unit that is easy to kill has mediocre range and poor damage output and does a job that lots of other choices in the codex do better for less points. That's your choice. If you think that it is possible to hi DE and still use effectively the Destroyers but never an Annihilation Barge then great it must mean everyone else is a bad player because they want to not waste their points.

Good luck to you.

I wonder if GW has a suggestion box?
I would stuff it with, "Oi, whoever is working on the next Necron codex: Either drop Destroyers/Lychguard/Praetorians by 10 points per model or fekking make them worth 40 in the first place! ... and you damn well better be making Flayed Ones troops with Fear and Shred this time, too."

 skoffs wrote:
I wonder if GW has a suggestion box?
I would stuff it with, "Oi, whoever is working on the next Necron codex: Either drop Destroyers/Lychguard/Praetorians by 10 points per model or fekking make them worth 40 in the first place! ... and you damn well better be making Flayed Ones troops with Fear and Shred this time, too."

Yeah this, Fear seems tailor made for Flayed ones. At 30 points all those units start to look good and drop the HGC upgrade down to 15 points and his destroyer unit comes in at 195 which feels much more worth it. Conversely the Nightscythe and Annihilation Barge both need to go up by about 50 points. And the Transcedent C'tan needs to have a big rethink (the death explosion is stupid).

Nah, 50 points is too steep.
Really, I'd prefer if they kept their current points cost but LOST the Tesla Destructors.
Have them come with Tesla Cannons instead as default (doesn't need the under slung gun), and make the Destructors purchaseable upgrades instead (with the option to switch T.Cannons for Gauss Cannons, and T.Destructor with Heavy G.Cannon).

#nevergoingtohappen

50 points is about right for the Nightscythe if you compare it to other flyers. Look at the Stormtalon at 125 it does on average 2.1 HPs before jink where as the Nightscythe does 2.65 to the talon which over kills it. Before you even consider the Nightscythe doesn't care about jinking. Or the Dakkajet at 145 does 6.75 S6 hits a turn is AV10 all round and not a transport the Scythe does 5.34 S7 hits with arc is AV11 all round and a transport so should be more points so 150 seems about right.

Likewise the Annibarge would then be 140 points. Compare to a triplelas Predator. Its opened topped but is 13/13/11 compare to Pred 13/11/10. It is a Skimmer doesn't care about snapfiring and provides AA. The 145 point Pred puts 2.22 S9 Ap2 hits a turn on a unit the Annibarge puts 5.33 S7 and 2 S6 hits and has Arc so has comparable firepower shorter range but more mobility and more survivability. So having it at just 5 points less seems about right again.

The 50 point remark wasn't a number plucked out of the air. Unless they change Tesla to just 1 extra hit on a 6 (which makes it much fairer in the world of snapshooting) that to me is where the point level should be.

I see a lot of talk about comparing destroyers with heavy support roles. I'm playing a battle forged army and I already have my heavy support choices decided. So with the remaining points, I am considering destroyers. In this example saying that any other heavy support choices are better than destroyers are kind of confusing to me?

There were Elite choices mentioned too (and troops). What do you mean by you have your HS choices decided? You know there is no limit to how many HS choices you can have in a Battleforged army right?

bveazey wrote:
I see a lot of talk about comparing destroyers with heavy support roles. I'm playing a battle forged army and I already have my heavy support choices decided. So with the remaining points, I am considering destroyers. In this example saying that any other heavy support choices are better than destroyers are kind of confusing to me?

If you're set on having a fixed list without varying, you can consider getting units from non-Heavy Support. But if you'd like, you can get other HS options as well, to allow you to vary your list for variety.

I am also thinking of getting some Destroyers. I like their look, above all.

 FlingitNow wrote:
So if you think spending 260 points on a unit that is easy to kill has mediocre range and poor damage output and does a job that lots of other choices in the codex do better for less points. That's your choice. If you think that it is possible to hi DE and still use effectively the Destroyers but never an Annihilation Barge then great it must mean everyone else is a bad player because they want to not waste their points.

Good luck to you.

I don't know why you are getting so bitter about this. Calling something with a 48" reach mediocre is just ridiculous. You are so hell bent on winning an internet argument you aren't even processing things critically.

That's fine. I've repeatedly said its about maximizing on the combination of their maneuverability, range, and terrain to keep them on the battlefield much longer then ABs tend to last. Destroyers peaking around LOS as a part of a concentrated firepower on one flank can be incredibly effective. You steadily eliminate any real threat of return fire and they stay on the field much longer then you seem to realize. You can do some similar things with an AB in this regard, but its more difficult as they much bigger targets, with less range, and are basically slower, although they can equal the Destoyers speed if they sack their firepower a bit.

Everybody knows ABs are good. But if you don't think Destroyers can pull their weight its simply because you don't know how to play with them. It's really that simple.


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The 145 point Pred puts 2.22 S9 Ap2 hits a turn on a unit the Annibarge puts 5.33 S7 and 2 S6 hits and has Arc so has comparable firepower shorter range but more mobility and more survivability. So having it at just 5 points less seems about right again.

You realize in this comparison the Pred has 48" range and the AB has 24" range right? The AV 13 on the pred also never disappears. It's also closed top. I'm not sure how that makes the AB more survivable.

You realize in this comparison the Pred has 48" range and the AB has 24" range right? The AV 13 on the pred also never disappears. It's also closed top. I'm not sure how that makes the AB more survivable.

The AB can move 12" with barely losing firepower. The Pred can't move 1" without crippling its firepower. The Pred is always side 11 and rear 10 only after a pen is the AB side 11 and it's still rear 11 (which makes a huge difference if you get assaulted by infiltrators or out flankers) the AB can jink again with barely losing firepower. I mention that the AB is open topped in the thread and the range. So in terms of survivability the Pred has the following advantages permanent front AV13, range, closed top. The AB has side AV13, maneouvrability, 4+ cover whenever it wants it, rear armour 11.

I don't know why you are getting so bitter about this. Calling out stuff I had actually included in my post as if it was new information. You are so hell bent on winning an internet argument you aren't even processing things critically. 

Particularly when you claim that it is range that allows the Destroyers to be used well and then start talking about threat range. Threat range is important for the alphastrike. Pure range is important for keeping out of harms way. Hence why I referred to their mediocre range, not mediocre threat range.

The AB can move 12" with barely losing firepower. The Pred can't move 1" without crippling its firepower.

LOL, so the AB's firepower dropping 30% is "barely" but the Pred dropping 50% is "crippling." I love your use of qualifiers.

The Pred is always side 11 and rear 10 only after a pen is the AB side 11 and it's still rear 11 (which makes a huge difference if you get assaulted by infiltrators or out flankers) the AB can jink again with barely losing firepower. I mention that the AB is open topped in the thread and the range. So in terms of survivability the Pred has the following advantages permanent front AV13, range, closed top. The AB has side AV13, maneouvrability, 4+ cover whenever it wants it, rear armour 11.

Yeah, exactly, and the most important aspect of that is the superior range of the Pred. Preds hanging out on the rear flanks seldom expose anything but their front, and are hard to get to for any return fire. ABs are ALWAYS be getting shot at, because they have to be in range of virtually every gun just so they can shoot.

I don't know why you are getting so bitter about this. Calling out stuff I had actually included in my post as if it was new information. You are so hell bent on winning an internet argument you aren't even processing things critically. 

Sort of. Accept your information was inaccurate, which compelled my desire to clarify it.

Particularly when you claim that it is range that allows the Destroyers to be used well and then start talking about threat range. Threat range is important for the alphastrike. Pure range is important for keeping out of harms way. Hence why I referred to their mediocre range, not mediocre threat range.

Neither a 36" "pure range" nor a 48" threat range are mediocre. Most weapons in the game are 24", with 30" threat ranges.

Mobility+Good Range is amazing. Well, it's amazing for people who know how to use it, anyway. People who are use to moving all their units into the middle of the board and throwing dice at the opponent might have issues, though. YMMV.