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 PhillyT wrote:
People can't honestly be that upset that they doubled or tripled the available fluff and opportunity in the 5th edition book over the threadbare but interesting framework in 3rd.

They didn't add anything to the old fluff. They just said "That didn't happen, here's what really happened." And if you actually LIKED the old fluff you get one or two sentences about how there are still tomb worlds that act like oldcrons. Not that that actually means any thing because the oldcron stick of mysterious eldritch abomination with deities of pure evil just doesn't work when 90% of the race is running around politely giving a whole month to evacuate before the invasion, or trading with people, or just not being very evil, comparatively, or not having the pure evil deities but instead Pokemon.

Newcron is only cron.

 NL_Cirrus wrote:

 PhillyT wrote:
People can't honestly be that upset that they doubled or tripled the available fluff and opportunity in the 5th edition book over the threadbare but interesting framework in 3rd.

They didn't add anything to the old fluff. They just said "That didn't happen, here's what really happened." And if you actually LIKED the old fluff you get one or two sentences about how there are still tomb worlds that act like oldcrons. Not that that actually means any thing because the oldcron stick of mysterious eldritch abomination with deities of pure evil just doesn't work when 90% of the race is running around politely giving a whole month to evacuate before the invasion, or trading with people, or just not being very evil, comparatively, or not having the pure evil deities but instead Pokemon.

"Mysterious" What does that mean, considering we know the goals of the C'tan, the goals of the necrons to exterminate all and eventually cut the warp off through technology. There's nothing mysterious about a race that we know down to how their technology works, down to how they got screwed, and generally everything about them and the C'tan.

"Eldritch abomination" is kinda out there considering the C'tan are pretty much even more constant then the Chaos Gods, infact the C'tan are just powerful alien beings that ate stars for sustenance.

The evil deities are still there, except now the Necrons prioritize capturing them because otherwise they could cause them to become slaves again to them.

And there's plenty of evil tomb worlds, Maynarch is one of the more destructive ones too.

Metal Tyranids are still available with tomb worlds that have lost their minds in general, sure you won't have the Mary Sue'tan around but they were a detriment.

I just love it when I'm ignored because I'm right and people would rather argue and clique up...

 Furyou Miko wrote:
I just love it when I'm ignored because I'm right and people would rather argue and clique up...

You were talking about the slaves being ascended into the metal form (Warriors I figure by now) alongside general thoughts on the newcron empires as a whole, what were you talking about that you are right on?

Might have been another thread, but the fact that the only real change is that "and then we messed up the C'tan, too!" was tacked onto the known oldcron fluff.

All the stuff about higher ranked Necrons having personalities and that? It was in the old fluff. Orks being weapons designed to kill Necrons? That was in the old fluff too. The "Newcron" codex reveal is just the culmination of all the old hints and tidbits that were handed out over the last fifteen years.

Oh, sure, Ward screwed things up a little with his Dolmen Gates and turning Wraiths from destroyers into canopteks, but those are really minor details in the scheme of things, and don't actually invalidate anything (as shown by IA12, the Inertialess Drive is still a thing, for example).

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Might have been another thread, but the fact that the only real change is that "and then we messed up the C'tan, too!" was tacked onto the known oldcron fluff.

All the stuff about higher ranked Necrons having personalities and that? It was in the old fluff. Orks being weapons designed to kill Necrons? That was in the old fluff too. The "Newcron" codex reveal is just the culmination of all the old hints and tidbits that were handed out over the last fifteen years.

Oh, sure, Ward screwed things up a little with his Dolmen Gates and turning Wraiths from destroyers into canopteks, but those are really minor details in the scheme of things, and don't actually invalidate anything (as shown by IA12, the Inertialess Drive is still a thing, for example).

Well there is the fact there's a line within the 3rd edition codex that basically states Necrons do not speak, ever. Which is usually trotted out when it comes down to the arguments on why everything else about having personalities is non-canon.

Page reference, please. I've been a Necron player since 1998 and don't remember ever seeing a line that 'basically' states that Necrons never talk.

There's plenty of things saying that nobody has heard a Necron talk, but then there are also several examples of Necrons talking (but the people they talk to then being horrible murdered before they can report it).

For example, I believe it's in the Necron codex around the C'tan section, there's a short story of a Magos Explorator finding a Necron tomb and having a chat with its Lord (who is not a C'tan), before freaking out and being cut down trying to escape.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Page reference, please. I've been a Necron player since 1998 and don't remember ever seeing a line that 'basically' states that Necrons never talk.

There's plenty of things saying that nobody has heard a Necron talk, but then there are also several examples of Necrons talking (but the people they talk to then being horrible murdered before they can report it).

For example, I believe it's in the Necron codex around the C'tan section, there's a short story of a Magos Explorator finding a Necron tomb and having a chat with its Lord (who is not a C'tan), before freaking out and being cut down trying to escape.

I believe the one they trotted out was the one on the Necron Lord entry, about them and their unnatural silence.

Yeah they added a little more on than just screw the Ctan.

But much of what was added doesn't really invalidate the old fluff. The third edition fluff was bland and empty. Interesting in a certain way, in the mindlessness of the necrons with the only interesting character located in the CTan, but not very good as a way to add fluff to your specific army.

The new fluff essentially elaborated on what happened to the CTan, helped explain why the Nightbringer and Deciever weren't nearly as powerful as the fluff would have implied, and expanded on how the lords worked. The only thing removed were the Pariah (which was a stupid idea) and the idea that the NEcron were totally silent. 99.9% of them are now silent.

They haven't even removed the Pariahs, they just haven't mentioned them.

Still, bring forth your points of difference and lay them before me. What have they invalidated?

The Ctan do not control the neuron still. That has been reversed. On the other hand, there is still room for some neurons being controlled by a shard.

As far as the pariah, it could still be a thing for some tomb world somewhere, but it isn't the end goal/master plan of the Necrons anymore. It could be some cryptek's idea for a return to flesh I guess.

We, the Neuron race, ride up agains thee, for the Neurons are no longer your slaves ctan!

No matter how many times I teach my Mac how to spell neurons, it swaps them to neurons. If it isn't capitalized, it switches them.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
Tyranids are the whole reason the Necrons are waking up now.

I don't believe this is true. Necrons have awoken to reclaim the galaxy, but realized that with the Tyranids there, there is a bit of a problem in the way. A huge problem

 the shrouded lord wrote:
We, the Neuron race, ride up agains thee, for the Neurons are no longer your slaves ctan!

ITT: War in Heaven was Electrons vs. Protons

 Sigvatr wrote:

 the shrouded lord wrote:
We, the Neuron race, ride up agains thee, for the Neurons are no longer your slaves ctan!

ITT: War in Heaven was Electrons vs. Protons

In the end, it was all about Quarks.

HiveFleetKraken wrote:

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
Tyranids are the whole reason the Necrons are waking up now.

I don't believe this is true. Necrons have awoken to reclaim the galaxy, but realized that with the Tyranids there, there is a bit of a problem in the way. A huge problem

Well, the Silent King is deliberately waking some of them up because Tyranids, apparently. Which makes another good argument for the existence of Inertialess Drive FTL in the new fluff, because otherwise there's absolutely no way he could have been in the middle of dark space and found them, then gotten back in time, because the 'nids DO have FTL.

 Quarterdime wrote:
Given all of the "really a good guy once you get to know him" fluff about the necron leadership now, I feel like the whole "scour worlds of all life" doesn't sound quite right anymore. Don't get me wrong, they're still an evil empire, but they're not "ancient evil awakening" anymore as much as a practical fusion between every other xenos threat in 40k. They're more powerful than tyranids, more ancient than Eldar, more industrious and imperial than Tau, and more bizarre than orks.

But yeah. Building an Empire and exterminating all life don't really jive that well. Has there been anything saying that they bring death to all life in their new codex?

Your intuition is sound.
Perhaps no one is planning to write a series of fifteen, five hundred page novels with the Necrons as main characters and primary focus. BUT if they WERE going to do so, oldcrons simply would not work. Certainly you can sort of fake your way through a codex with feeling - less , hope-less , really mindless , super killers exterminating all life for the sake of extermination, but that's it.
Even a single novel devoted to that plot would , if written consistently in that context, read like sitting down to read a big city telephone directory , line by line, cover to cover. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Necron lore HAD to change , or go nowhere at all.

Except that oldcron lore supported Necrons with personalities and emotions...

As far as the speaking thing goes, from what I can recall, its just the warriors and such that can't speak because they were thrown together slapdash (well, less effort was put into them at least), but the "nobles" can talk no problem... it even mentions them giving rousing, pre-battle speeches to the troops despite the troops just staring blankly until being given the command to exterminate over the wifi network.