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teban wrote:
Not every planet is at war or needs the marines either... So that helps the marines quite a bit.

Want to know what is too few? Sisters of battle. Like 50k. Tops. For the whole galaxy. Kudos, GW!

:(

I think Guard was the only faction written with a bit of Practicality in mind.

In all fairness for the sisters though, their tasks seem really pointless and menial. Like 2 sisters guarding a shrine on an empty world etc. Which in my opinion Space Marines should be doing. In a way its pretty cool.

Hey! :(

They're tasked with killing evul traitor marines, too

teban wrote:
Hey! :(

They're tasked with killing evul traitor marines, too

Pft, so few marines, wouldnt be hard (I was kinda joking dude, dont worry) haha

But you saying that really made me realize how few sisters there are.

Count as fail? I mean 50k... thats pretty small. Surely there are more female orphans in the imperium.

I remember a WD mentioning that two troops 1 HQ is an arbitrary limit really, and that 'if a chapter has two assault squads and a dreadnought spare, that is what they will send.'

I read somewhere, a while ago, that only orphans from officials actually are elegible as battle sisters. I may be wrong - however, at a maximum of 7k sisters per Order (the greater orders) and a few minor orders that number from say 50 to 1k members... They're too few.

So yeah, they're either too few intentionally or just a fail by GW's side

I feel safe putting that on the fail list then.

What about Tanks in 40k. Things like Space marines wearing Power Armour inside of the tank, or Leman russes having such a small amount of space for ammo and crew etc.

Models are not to scale. Presumably the rhino and LR is bigger to compensate for their large passengers.

The Russ is just a fail design. Far too big cannon, far too high profile...

Though this is bad proportions, not bad scale.

This one is debatable, but the Macharian Conquest always bothered me.

1,000 worlds, in 7 years? I always thought that meant habitable worlds. Even if we assume 4 habitable worlds per system, each system is falling in 7 days. Which seems like how long it would take just to travel between systems. Doesn't leave much time for Macharius to do his brilliant commanding.

Remember that tanks are not to the same scale as miniatures. Hell, even marines are not to scale - guards are the same height!

Vindicators, for example, dont have any transport capacity. I'd say they carry some 25-50 rounds for the main gun!

Even in the art work though, the tanks look tiny. Does the Tank commander never try fit his Space Marine Pads through the hatch or something? Unless there is a technical drawing out there?

And even the Leman russ in the art looks waay to small as well. Was hoping for some measurements or something by GW.

I dont know, even the art seems way out of scale for tanks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheSilo wrote:
This one is debatable, but the Macharian Conquest always bothered me.

1,000 worlds, in 7 years? I always thought that meant habitable worlds. Even if we assume 4 habitable worlds per system, each system is falling in 7 days. Which seems like how long it would take just to travel between systems. Doesn't leave much time for Macharius to do his brilliant commanding.

Heck, are these like small battles or are the full on conflicts? That is a lot of worlds.

Imperial armor books have a bunch of details on tanks. You should look into them

Will do, ill put those thoughts aside for now. Are they decent though? Or are they vague?

They're better than art... :p But it will give you a rough idea of how they are.

Alright, ill check it out later then. Cheers for that.

Da Butcha wrote:
Plus, I don't think that Marines are willing to spread themselves thin for most military actions. They pick battles of their own choosing, based on ancient pacts, enmities, and oaths, and then kick ass and leave.

Aye, that's certainly not unknown from the fluff. The marines don't even necessarily bother to coordinate with other Imperial forces in the area, they just say "we'll hit this" and then leave the Imperial Commander to figure out what just happened and what he should do to gain some advantage from it. Or as the Adepta Sororitas Canoness who filed a complaint against a Blood Angels successor after a joint action on Armageddon said.... "Chapter Master Seth offered me no tactical counsel, but after leading Sisters in battle for over a century I was not surprised at this response from the Adeptus Astartes". The marines are not only very few, they're also often too proud, or disdainful, or whatever to tell even their allies what they're doing.

For that matter, the whole 'heroic scale' thing is a fail, actually, since I would prefer fluff scale.

I do not demand ten foot marines (Like this fella), as that is just too extreme, but at least nine feet? Please?



Admit it, this looks awesome (Even if the legs are off)

On a fluff matter. From anything GW art produced, Marines always have to be legs apart. Its almost like they cant move without their thighs whacking against each other. Scale fail?

Also Scibor Marines are well scaled. Much bigger than GW ones. I have a few that I was gonna use at one point.

 Swastakowey wrote:
On a fluff matter. From anything GW art produced, Marines always have to be legs apart. Its almost like they cant move without their thighs whacking against each other. Scale fail?

No, that's proportions and/or shape, not scale.

But it is possible their ascension has made the bone structure in the hip area change to the point that this is their natural stance.

Yep, feel dumb now haha.

But yes that is correct.

 Swastakowey wrote:
I think Guard was the only faction written with a bit of Practicality in mind.

The Guard? Those guys who do silly things like fight using trench-war tactics, are often sent in single regiments of thousands to defend or re-take entire planets and have tanks that shouldn't work?

One of the largest recorded Guard offensives ever noted in fluff is the recently added reinforcement armada being sent in to push the Tau out of the Damocles Gulf. It's noted as possessing "over 1000 regiments."

... now, the Guard codex lists 100,000 troops as being an upper-limit for Regiment sizes. Even if we were to assume that every Regiment involved had 100,000 troops in it (almost certainly not the case) , that would put the Force at a 100 million troops.

An army ~50 times larger than the US military... is supposed to somehow fight a campaign that involves conquering a dozen heavily defended, dug-in worlds.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:
I think Guard was the only faction written with a bit of Practicality in mind.

The Guard? Those guys who do silly things like fight using trench-war tactics and are often sent in single regiments of thousands to defend or re-take entire planets?

No but their guns are probably the most practical guns in the universe of 40k.

The guard has the best training, recruitment and weapons for what they are. A bunch of quickly drafted humans (for the most part).

Everything else takes decades of time and development, and so much of their gear and weapons are far from practical.

So while the guard arent practical, they are practical by miles when compared to all the other imperial factions we commonly see.

Ignore what was once here, I misread your post.

What about their guns strike you as being the most practical weapons in 40K?

Quantity is a quality in itself.

Like water-drops falling on rocks. It will eventually go through

Someone mentioned Tau.

Tiny Empire that survives countless assaults and attacks from giant enemies who take on bigger threats and win?

Is the plot armor or stories suffecient to defend this tiny race from being insignificant or even being alive?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Ignore what was once here, I misread your post.

What about their guns strike you as being the most practical weapons in 40K?

A poor farmer can use it without training, it has potentially unlimited ammo. Needs little maintenance.

Its like the mosin nagant of 40k.

Easy to make, produce, use, maintain and perfect for soldiers of all training levels. Also among the most versatile (in my opinion that one).

Which, in my opinion, is one of the few guns in 40k I would actually want. Its always useful. Especially with the power settings etc.

 BlaxicanX wrote:


One of the largest recorded Guard offensives ever noted in fluff is the recently added reinforcement armada being sent in to push the Tau out of the Damocles Gulf. It's noted as possessing "over 1000 regiments."

... now, the Guard codex lists 100,000 troops as being an upper-limit for Regiment sizes. Even if we were to assume that every Regiment involved had 100,000 troops in it (almost certainly not the case) , that would put the Force at a 100 million troops.

An army ~50 times larger than the US military... is supposed to somehow fight a campaign that involves conquering a dozen heavily defended, dug-in worlds.

This is absolutely true and the Guard are STILL the most numerically and tactically practical force the Imperium wields. I seem to recall that the old Armageddon codex was pretty bad, with big battles having troop numbers in the hundreds of thousands.

The 1000 SM's per chapter (and SM numbers in general) is the worst offender. You can talk about lightning raids, special forces, and superhuman power all you want, but these chapters are supposed to be fielding that size force in crusades across dozens of planets or solar systems. Not to mention that the chapters are all split up, with some staying home to recruit new marines, others crusading elsewhere, and whatnot. So most of the time there's not 1000 marines, there's at most, a COUPLE HUNDRED. There could be hundreds of battles happening on a planet at the same time. And again, multiple planets. So unless they're running around in groups of 5, the SM's WON'T EVEN BE PRESENT for 99.9% of the battles. It's not like they supernaturally always know where the most important battles are going to happen either. And they can't travel instantaneously from battle to battle, world to world, system to system. That takes time. 1000 SM's a chapter means that any given Space Marine force would be a drop in the bucket, a footnote in solar system spanning warfare. At that scale, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE FOR THEM TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE. Hardly the heroic game changers their made out to be.

 Swastakowey wrote:


It would be like Judge Dredd. So many places need the Judge's help, but very few would get it. Which means there are far too few.

Well i just read a few 2000ad's after 20 years away. They've lost all sense of scale now as well. So i wouldn't start mentioning them. They're going through a change as well.

the ancient wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:


It would be like Judge Dredd. So many places need the Judge's help, but very few would get it. Which means there are far too few.

Well i just read a few 2000ad's after 20 years away. They've lost all sense of scale now as well. So i wouldn't start mentioning them. They're going through a change as well.

I have only seen the latest movie. Thats all I was basing it off.

teban wrote:
Not every planet is at war or needs the marines either... So that helps the marines quite a bit.

Want to know what is too few? Sisters of battle. Like 50k. Tops. For the whole galaxy. Kudos, GW!

:(

Wait, wot?

That can't be right. Like literally cannot be right. Every.. Er "religion world"? I don't know what you'd call them, as their own army of sisters. Perhaps not -theirs-, but one which is assigned to them. 50k sisters in total would be something like half a sister per world.

 Swastakowey wrote:

the ancient wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:


It would be like Judge Dredd. So many places need the Judge's help, but very few would get it. Which means there are far too few.

Well i just read a few 2000ad's after 20 years away. They've lost all sense of scale now as well. So i wouldn't start mentioning them. They're going through a change as well.

I have only seen the latest movie. Thats all I was basing it off.

GW has no idea what numbers it would take to execute a planetary war.

Let me put this simply. The average planet population in 40k is 8,000,000,000. We're gonna assume 100,000,000 of its inhabitants are trained soldiers.

I'm gonna say at least 1,000,000,000 IG would be needed to sustain that war, not a couple hundred million.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Models are not to scale. Presumably the rhino and LR is bigger to compensate for their large passengers.

The Russ is just a fail design. Far too big cannon, far too high profile...

Though this is bad proportions, not bad scale.

Isn't the Russ an STC for a tractor?