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For lack of a better word whirlwinds suck. Not the best heavy option you have.

To eyeball things, you might want to keep in mind that, mathematically, RP increases the amount of wounds needed to destroy a unit (assuming it survives the initial attack) by about 1.5, and a Res Orb doubles it. So if you are facing a unit of 10 Warriors, they actually have about 15 wounds collectively, in effect.

Focus one unit at a time, don't bring vehicles, they hit last in melee but hit like a space marine, so shoot from a distance and focus fire.

 skoffs wrote:

Jaq Draco lives wrote:

Kholzerino wrote:

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
Be prepared to face a wall of AV13. Played against it and it is intimidating as hell.

Since you didn't give us an army type hard to give advice!

Its either AV13 wall of death or flyer spam, more rarely royal disco court inferno. But if you pack some kind of skyfire and plenty that can hurt AV13 - some high strength blasts would be nice as on a CCB it always hits the chariot so no tanking on the invulnerable save.

Why do you think it always hits the vehicle with a blast? News to me and not seen it played that way at tournaments etc.

Read 7th Edition rules. This is non debatable. Chariot rules.

You are correct.

Shooting At Chariots

Spoiler:

Hit pools from Blast and Template weapons are always resolved against the Chariot.

Damn! Thanks.

I always had the most trouble against deep striking anything with a 2+ save playing as Crons. My heavy hitters (CCB, barges, heavy destroyers) were always tied up with other high priority targets and a couple squads of terminators would walk all over everything else.

Kangodo wrote:

-No, you cannot prevent the Ever-living roll from a CCB since you don't get a consolidate when you kill a vehicle.

Nope, it's a chariot.

In close combat, Chariots fight like Infantry models. Chariots may make Sweeping Advances, Pile In moves and Consolidations unless they are Stunned.

Furthermore, unlike vehicles, chariots get locked in combat, which is exactly like an infantry assault situation.

You can take it to YMDC, but I think it's pretty clear.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@OP: Whatever you do, don't tailor.

Learn to write a good list, learn from a good list, do whatever.

But tailoring against a necron opponent with a meh list sounds like a bad plan.

I know that rule, it allows Chariots to make Consolidations moves It doesn't say anything about fighting against Chariots.
We were talking about making a consolidation if you destroyed a vehicle, which is not allowed.

List-tailoring is always a bad plan as you don't end up being best friends.
The only situation where "list tailoring" is okay, is if you actually weaken your list to 'tailor' to the opponent (if he doesn't have specific models or something like that).
I, for example, don't go with a vehicle heavy list because I know my friend is on a budget and doesn't have enough anti-tank.

Kangodo wrote:
I know that rule, it allows Chariots to make Consolidations moves It doesn't say anything about fighting against Chariots.
We were talking about making a consolidation if you destroyed a vehicle, which is not allowed.

List-tailoring is always a bad plan as you don't end up being best friends.
The only situation where "list tailoring" is okay, is if you actually weaken your list to 'tailor' to the opponent (if he doesn't have specific models or something like that).
I, for example, don't go with a vehicle heavy list because I know my friend is on a budget and doesn't have enough anti-tank.

The chariot. is . not . a . vehicle.

It's a hybrid that can behave as one or the other, sometimes by choice, sometimes not (probably the stupidest rules in all of 40K right now).

In assault, it behaves like infantry, for all intents and purposes, and that is described in the BRB.

As I said, you can play legalese / misunderstanding all you like in YMDC, but clearly it's intended to allow consolidation at the end of a locked assault phase with a model that behaves like infantry, like at the end of all other locked assault phases with models that behave like infantry.

Tailoring against a specific opponent / list or army is bs, and if you want to go soft on someone be direct and take a points handicap instead of tippy toeing around the fact that your opponent doesn't stand a chance at equal points.

morgoth wrote:


The chariot. is . not . a . vehicle.

The Necron 7th edition FAQ directly contradicts this statement.

http://www.blacklibrary.com/Downloads/Product/PDF/Warhammer-40k/7th-faq/Necrons_v1.0_May14.pdf
Catacomb Command Barge: Vehicle (Chariot, Fast, Open-topped, Skimmer) Hull Points: 3.

The rule tells us that the Chariot fights like infantry, it says nothing about how your opponent fights the Chariot.
That means the Chariot has permission to make a Consolidate, but you don't have permission to make Consolidate against the Chariot.

I can play legalese/misunderstanding? You're the one telling people that they can consolidate against Chariots when the BRB clearly tells us they can't do such a thing. And it's perfectly fine to discuss it if people give false information in a Tactics-thread.

Tailoring against a specific opponent / list or army is bs, and if you want to go soft on someone be direct and take a points handicap instead of tippy toeing around the fact that your opponent doesn't stand a chance at equal points.

Why would I do that?
The problem is not that the opponent doesn't stand a chance, the issue is that he lacks the specific models to counter a large amount of vehicles.
Many people buy second-hand stuff and that doesn't allow you to pick and choose, you just go with the deal you have.
Why would I play at 250 less if I could as well drop a Land Raider and take more infantry, which solves the issue without taking 16% less in your army.

@col_impact a chariot is really not a vehicle. They put it in the vehicle category for god knows what reason, but chariots are a broken hybrid between infantry and vehicle, they're not vehicles.

@Kangodo you are being obtuse about the rules on purpose.

The BRB clearly implies in every possible way that a chariot vs infantry assault phase is exactly the same as an infantry vs infantry assault phase.

This is illustrated by the fact that it does get locked in combat and gets pile in and consolidate moves. - and other details as well.

Of course, GW as usual has not been perfectly thorough, and the tiny holes seem to be enough for people like you to pretend they're not holes but actually intended nonsensical rules.

Your point of view is still 100% RAW abuse and ignoring the RAI and other logical arguments on purpose.

morgoth wrote:
@col_impact a chariot is really not a vehicle. They put it in the vehicle category for god knows what reason, but chariots are a broken hybrid between infantry and vehicle, they're not vehicles.

The rules clearly state that it is a vehicle. It seems that your argument is that the rules are broken at a fundamental level in their handling of the chariot. Is this correct?

col_impact wrote:

morgoth wrote:
@col_impact a chariot is really not a vehicle. They put it in the vehicle category for god knows what reason, but chariots are a broken hybrid between infantry and vehicle, they're not vehicles.

The rules clearly state that it is a vehicle. It seems that your argument is that the rules are broken at a fundamental level in their handling of the chariot. Is this correct?

Yes.

For lack of a better place to put them in the BRB they ended up there, but it's clear that chariots are about as close to vehicles as they are to infantry.

morgoth wrote:
@col_impact a chariot is really not a vehicle. They put it in the vehicle category for god knows what reason, but chariots are a broken hybrid between infantry and vehicle, they're not vehicles.
.

Wrong, as stated above. The CCB is a vehicle with the IC USR.

m fighting against my brother's necron army and he always wins! He wins 4 out of 10 battles and the rest of them i just ragequit ! Here is his necron army list: 

Anrakyr the traveller 
5 immortals 
5 praetorians with ROC 
5 deathmarks 
15 necron warriors 
A squad of scarab swarm ( 5 models ) 
Doomsday ark 

I play with a SM army ( i use the assault on black reach and dark vengeance units ) heres the army list: 
2 space marine captains 
Librarian 
10 termies 
20 spess marines 
1 Dreadnought 
3 RW bikes 

( i dont play with all of them at once , but even when i do he wins! ) Note that i dont have any scenery. 
Any help-advisem fellow warriors ? 

Specially i have problems with

his deathmarks ( marking my strong units and taking them out easily ) 
Doomsday (the range of that canon since i cannot cover and if you actually think that in stationary mode is AP 1 S 10 !) 
SCARABS (locking my termies in CC for too long) 
tachyon arrow ( just destroys everything !)
Please for the Emperors sake help!

 Minus The dragonslayer wrote:


m fighting against my brother's necron army and he always wins! He wins 4 out of 10 battles and the rest of them i just ragequit ! Here is his necron army list: 

Anrakyr the traveller 
5 immortals 
5 praetorians with ROC 
5 deathmarks 
15 necron warriors 
A squad of scarab swarm ( 5 models ) 
Doomsday ark 

I play with a SM army ( i use the assault on black reach and dark vengeance units ) heres the army list: 
2 space marine captains 
Librarian 
10 termies 
20 spess marines 
1 Dreadnought 
3 RW bikes 

( i dont play with all of them at once , but even when i do he wins! ) Note that i dont have any scenery. 
Any help-advisem fellow warriors ? 

Specially i have problems with

his deathmarks ( marking my strong units and taking them out easily ) 
Doomsday (the range of that canon since i cannot cover and if you actually think that in stationary mode is AP 1 S 10 !) 
SCARABS (locking my termies in CC for too long) 
tachyon arrow ( just destroys everything !)
Please for the Emperors sake help!

How are his Deathmarks wrecking your troops without a Harbinger of Despair attached to them? Termies and Tacticals should hold up pretty well vs. naked Deathmarks.

Be prepared for the unbound C'tan. If you can't bring that thing down in ~2 turns it'll kill too much stuff.

Fortunately, this dovetails in with your general anti-Necron tech as SM. Bring anti tank weapons for mechrons and rely on assault if you find yourself up against a food crons build.

Obviously, this will betray you if you run into the meleecrons, psyker powers and Knights go a long way towards evening the score.