tag8833 wrote:
If a Tfex is tarpitted, he likely isn't taking wounds, and therefore he can spend 4 turns contributing nothing to the army. During this time, he is not Regenning anything. A flyrant can't really be tarpitted because he is swooping most of the time. Even if someone does manage to charge him, Initiative 5,
WS 8 + an extra attack means it is hard to tarpit.
SHUPPET wrote:Number 6-7 aren't a positive reason to invest more points into Regen into a Flyrant, no matter how you spin it.
#6: If regen gives you back 3 wounds is it a better investment than if it gives you back 1 wound? Perils can happen turn 1-2. Tfex probably won't take a wound on turn 1-2 (or the entire game for that matter)
#7: Is being able to cast psychic powers better than not being able to cast psychic powers?
SHUPPET wrote:#8 is debatable and flat out incorrect in certain match ups (although not most). #9 is kind of irrelevant as with the points saved from taking a Tyrannofex you can more than afford a Zoanthrope and block
LoS with the TFex, except you have the freedom to do as you please with those points.
Build me a non-tyranid list where a TFex and Zoey does more damage than a Flyrant with E.Grubs. My main thought is 'ard boyz in Trukks, but even then, I'm dubious.
Now I understand 5. It was poorly worded. That being said, tarpits are almost never seen at <1000 and also much less effective there as well, especially so in this case thanks to TFexs particularly nasty Wall of Fire, however, this can be listed as an advantage to the Flyrant is guess.
I know it's your favourite thing in the world tag to disagree with everything I say, but this is getting outlandish.
A Tyrannofex won't take a wound all game? Why aren't we just playing armies of Tyrannofexes then you make them sound much better than I ever did! You are right, Regen is a terrible upgrade, it's just points wasted on our un-woundable Tyrannofexes!
The fact that Perils can cost a wound does not make Regen a better investment... BEST case scenario is that it happens before any other wound, has been taken, you succeed the roll, get your wound back, and you're no better off than where you started, with a successful Regen roll wasted on self inflicted wounds. But just as likely is you don't succeed the first Regen and you are down 25% of your survivability before taking at least one wound subsequent turns and having that perils wound unlikely to ever be Regen'd back. More likely than either of those situations, that it comes when you already have a wound taken and it kills you or costs you a wound you will never be getting back. I've never once seen Perils of the warp argued as a reason to place more value in a model, but you guys are trying very hard to push this one through - logic supports it in no way shape or form at all.
Being able to cast Psychic powers is better than not being able to cast Psychic powers, but melting 4+ models in cover is better than not being able to melt 4+ models in cover. Each model has it's advantages, why are we only listing Flyrants, all the while pretending that it doesn't pay a sizeable chunk of poits more for them?
Why does it have to be a Zoanthrope that you use for the
DPS comparison? A deliberately favoured example, you used a support model with less offensive capability than a Venomthrope? I've already got Synapse with my Flyrant and/or Malanthrope, As I said, you are free to spend the saved points however you want. That is 60 points off the price of a Dakkafex, a Mawloc, even an Exocrine, plenty of units those points might help you fit in the army to add plenty more
DPS than the difference between Flyrant and TFex. Let's just compare it as it a lower point model with lower damage output shall we, for the points it is to be expected.
I could write a list of reasons why they Flyrant does it worse, things that have gone unmentioned in your reasoning, such as Grounding Checks, the fact that your counter of Skyfire is similarly as common as AP2 except nerfs the Flyrant much harder than AP2 nerfs the the Tyrannofex, the fact that your survivability is much more based off forcing missing than armour and the combined fact that twin-linked is so much more prevalent than the almost non existant armour re-reroll forcing weaponry, the fact that he's vulnerable to all the anti-Psyker weaponry in the game, the fact that an unlucky perils can outright cause his death, the fact that he costs so many more points, the fact that a Regen Flyrant is so much more crippling to lose at over a quarter of your army and Tyrannofex is only a quarter, etc, none of these things are being acknowledged at all.
It's really crazy to say that Regen Flyrant is viable but Regen Tyrannofex isn't. They either both are, or they both aren't. The Regen upgrade is similarly good at prolonging their lifetime on the battlefield for each of them. One performs a different role to the other, and they do it at different price tags. There is a use for them both. In my opinion.
