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 thedarkavenger wrote:

Warpsolution wrote:
- a 3-wide unit of Ogres isn't much of an Anythingstar.

- as said above, the Crown of Command is pretty redundant on a character that can grant units Stubborn and will sit in a unit that usually wins combat anyway.

A brief comparison of (a) the WS10, -1 to Hit, 5+ Ward build versus (b) a 4+/4+:

against 100 WS4 S4 attacks (a) takes 3.7 wounds and (b) takes 5.5

against 100 WS5 S5 attacks (a) takes 11.1 wounds and (b) takes 10.4

against 100 WS6 S6 attacks, (a) takes 14.8 wounds and (b) takes 22.3 wounds

To be fair, the gutstar has pretty much been 3 wide for as long as I can remember. Characters hide in the second rank till combat, and then the 3+/4++ BSB and Firebelly step up. That means that the opponent gains bugger all in the way of Combat Res, whilst the guts just beat seven shades of hell out of their opponents.

I have NEVER seen a gutstar 3 wide. What is the puropse of hiding your characters in the second rank if they arent in combat? you run them 4 wide 3 deep and you put your bsb in the second rank with a full command so your bsb cant be singled out. Or you just run a horde of them and really watch the carnage


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Warpsolution wrote:
- a 3-wide unit of Ogres isn't much of an Anythingstar.

- as said above, the Crown of Command is pretty redundant on a character that can grant units Stubborn and will sit in a unit that usually wins combat anyway. because it insures that you are stubborn because spells are dispelled/dont go off and its also really nice being able to have a second unit that is stubborn when in a pinch

A brief comparison of (a) the WS10, -1 to Hit, 5+ Ward build versus (b) a 4+/4+:

against 100 WS4 S4 attacks (a) takes 3.7 wounds and (b) takes 5.5

against 100 WS5 S5 attacks (a) takes 11.1 wounds and (b) takes 10.4

against 100 WS6 S6 attacks, (a) takes 14.8 wounds and (b) takes 22.3 wounds

@thedarkavenger: Hm. So, is that a literal Gutstar, as in, a bunch of Ironguts plus characters? Or do people do the same thing with regular Bulls, too? I've only seen Hordes of Bulls around here.

@namiel: I think the point of running the characters in the second rank is for further cannon ball protection?
And while having a guaranteed/potentially extra Stubborn unit is neat, I just don't think it's worth the trade-off in protection. Especially, as I said, on a unit that will rarely lose combat anyway.
When it comes to the Maw, I usually let the Signature go through; it's the spells that make those Ogres way harder to taken down or better at taking my boys down that I want to stop.

Warpsolution wrote:
@thedarkavenger: Hm. So, is that a literal Gutstar, as in, a bunch of Ironguts plus characters? Or do people do the same thing with regular Bulls, too? I've only seen Hordes of Bulls around here.

@namiel: I think the point of running the characters in the second rank is for further cannon ball protection?
And while having a guaranteed/potentially extra Stubborn unit is neat, I just don't think it's worth the trade-off in protection. Especially, as I said, on a unit that will rarely lose combat anyway.
When it comes to the Maw, I usually let the Signature go through; it's the spells that make those Ogres way harder to taken down or better at taking my boys down that I want to stop.

Ill take my chances of failing a 2+ look out sir followed by him having to roll a 2+(small chance he fails) then when he wounds me he still needs a 5+ to outright kill me. So odds are he actually pops my SM with a single cannon are pretty low

Warpsolution wrote:
@thedarkavenger: Hm. So, is that a literal Gutstar, as in, a bunch of Ironguts plus characters? Or do people do the same thing with regular Bulls, too? I've only seen Hordes of Bulls around here.

@namiel: I think the point of running the characters in the second rank is for further cannon ball protection?
And while having a guaranteed/potentially extra Stubborn unit is neat, I just don't think it's worth the trade-off in protection. Especially, as I said, on a unit that will rarely lose combat anyway.
When it comes to the Maw, I usually let the Signature go through; it's the spells that make those Ogres way harder to taken down or better at taking my boys down that I want to stop.

The reason for them being in the second rank is so they can't be picked out by deathsnipes and the like.