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@monders: Slaves are a fantastic unit. A lot of people complain about how they're waaay too good, and while I don't necessarily agree with them, their complaints do not fall on deaf ears.
Yeah, you can run a decent Skaven list without them. But...why? They're Skaven. They have slaves! What about them is so unappealing to you?

@Dez:

1. Slaves are more than "can be great". They are great. Period. They're the cheapest model in the game. Nuff said.

2. calling Stormvermin a "hammer" is a bit generous. S4 T3 5+ isn't anything to write home about.
But they do blend an offensive boost with a still-decent price tag.

3. I don't know why you'd spend 100pts on a lvl1 Wizard at 750pts when you could spend those same points on a lvl2.
Sure, he's T5 and a pretty solid blender, but putting him in a bunker defeats all of that.

4. a bunker-unit is a luxury in such small games. And a decent-sized block of Clanrats, is a credible threat to a lot of units at this level. Sure, WS3 S3 isn't scary, but +4 static CR can turn the tide. Especially if you can get them in the flank.

5. Clanrats need shields.

6. Two blocks of Slaves seems like such a waste in such a tiny game. For those same 82pts, I could get two Rat Darts and a few more bodies to my other units.

If there are no magic items or Lords, and you're stuck with one Special unit OR one Rare unit, I'd do something like this:

1 Chieftain + halberd (47)
1 Chieftain + halberd + battle standard (72)

28 Clanrats + shields + musician + standard (138)
28 Stormvermin + musician + standard (211)
42 Skavenslaves + musician (86)
5 Giant Rats + 1 Packmaster (23)
5 Giant Rats + 1 Packmaster (23)

1 Doomwheel (150)

As long as you keep your characters away from enemy combat-Heroes, you should do pretty well. I've found that magic in small games (especially ones with no Lords!) isn't actually that big of a deal. A higher Ld and a tougher, fight-ier character have proven themselves to be more useful to me, time and again.

Warpsolution wrote:

@monders: Slaves are a fantastic unit. A lot of people complain about how they're waaay too good, and while I don't necessarily agree with them, their complaints do not fall on deaf ears.
Yeah, you can run a decent Skaven list without them. But...why? They're Skaven. They have slaves! What about them is so unappealing to you?

I have an image of a well drilled martial force(!) with a Storm Vermin core. Slaves don't really fit the aesthetic of that. Plus that's a lot of brown/black fur to paint up!

I watched a few SkavenInAz batt reps yesterday, and his slaves (3x50) hardly saw much action. I suppose they put people off and make you control more of the game. I may reconsider, but I'll use other races as the slaves just to mix it up a bit.

In fact that suits my army plan quite well - prisoners of war!

Yeah, that works. Right there in the book it says that the ranks of Slaves include prisoners of other races.

My Slaves are mostly hairless, though. Hair on the head, arms, and spine, mostly. With lots of welts and scars.

A well-drilled martial force, huh? Not sure if Skaven is right for you...
But in all seriousness, you don't need them.

I run two or more blocks of 50 at 2000pts and up, and a few of 20. 19 out of 20 times, they do their job. That is to say, dying horribly while the rest of my army marches on. It is a beautiful thing.

"That is to say, dying horribly while the rest of my army marches on. It is a beautiful thing"

I have the mentality that I don't want ANYONE in my army to die, and this affects my tactics and games something dreadful!

I currently play Lizardmen and am far too cautious. But I'm learning...

If you don't want anyone to die...well...Skaven will be a big shift for you.
Kill your own troops, monders. They were probably plotting to overturn your command, anyway. Send them into the heart of your foe and watch as they fall by the dozens! Turn your own guns into the swirling melee and tear through your own ranks into the enemy!

 monders wrote:
"That is to say, dying horribly while the rest of my army marches on. It is a beautiful thing"

I have the mentality that I don't want ANYONE in my army to die, and this affects my tactics and games something dreadful!

I currently play Lizardmen and am far too cautious. But I'm learning...

Don't play skaven if that's the tactics you want to use. Skaven die....and they dive in droves.
Slaves are the bees knees tho they can still kill stuff over a few turns but you can slam the flanks with hammer units.

In skaven everything is expendable and be prepared to sacrifice units for the good of others. Now that's sort of a generalization you still don't want to kill your own general lol

Stormvermin are cool I have 60 and they are alright I mean don't expect skaven to be super elite.

It's more a case of the points cost of Lizardmen and knowing at least 20% of my Saurus won't make it into combat. That worries me more than losing a handful of clan rats.

Warpsolution wrote:
If you don't want anyone to die...well...Skaven will be a big shift for you.
Kill your own troops, monders. They were probably plotting to overturn your command, anyway. Send them into the heart of your foe and watch as they fall by the dozens! Turn your own guns into the swirling melee and tear through your own ranks into the enemy!

I'm surprised just how quickly I seem to be adapting to the Skaven mindset. Just need to get this tourney in November out of the way then I can melt my lizards and get start adding to my verminous horde!

Trust me I was the same way. I didn't want to lose any of them. then I realized.... they are merely pawns for my Doomwheel, WLC, and A-Bomb