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 Waaagh 18 wrote:
I really would love to use him, so if anyone has any tips for using him with the new dex they are appreciated.

Sadly, the best way to use Ghaz is by using the model as a normal MA WB...

All i've managed to theoryhammer out of him yet is just to use instead of a warboss for WAAAGH while filling the spare slots with other HQ. Might probably be worth it in large games of around 2.5k. So that you get Ghaz, Grotsnik and 2 painbosses or simply 3 painbosses, blitz brigade and basically 3 waggonz full of fnp boyz and something like tankbustas on the flanks.

Or you could go with a MFF mek (or KFF) on a bike with a few koptas to cover up your blitz brigade with a field and still have 2 FNP squads.

I recently came up with the idea of forming his OWN small Killy group. Grotsnik, Ghazghkull, DLS MA Warboss, minimum unit of Boyz to eat ID wounds... Is this competitive? The DLS MA Warboss tanks wounds, LOS any ID to the Boyz and when Boyz run out Ghazzy takes a couple with his EW. Hopefully by the time they get to combat they are small enough to benefit from rampage.


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Or you could axe the boyz and try it with only Ghazzy, Grotsnik, and DLS MA Warboss.

They would probably get Dakka'd to pieces if they footslog, but I think it would be reasonable to stick them into a Battlewagon or something along those lines.

The problem with infantry "deathstars" for orks is that we don't have any great transports.

Battlewagons are -alright, but if you've got a super scary unit in one it can be popped by most armies AT in one turn. If you want to do something like that, you need to either bring a bunch of spare wagons (so they can hop in a new one each turn) or go to Forgeworld, for stuff like the battle fortress.

EDIT: There's also the issue of our 'beatsticks' not being able to stand upto the ones in other armies, sad as it may be. Outside of his Waaagh, Gazzy just isn't very good at standing upto nasty characters.

Well he'll probably kill any one guy in combat in one turn if he gets to attack, so it's more about timing his Waaagh... And also bring a KFF/MFF

 Waaagh 18 wrote:
Well he'll probably kill any one guy in combat in one turn if he gets to attack, so it's more about timing his Waaagh... And also bring a KFF/MFF

That's the issue. IF he gets to swing. If he gets to combat, then you have to worry about if his attacks will be in vain or not, considering how most HQ's you'll be facing will have Invul saves, while you do not (Unless you called his only Waaagh, you'll keep that Invul for 1 full turn cycle...then if you failed to kill them, Ghaz is probably going to die or be crippled for the rest of the game).

The thing that strikes me weird with the current version of Gaz, is he has no relics at all.

Could have done something with adamantium skull, or some special mega armor relic.

but no.

It is definitely strange and underwhelming


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He should have had an adamantium skull for an invulnerable save

Probably a misprint. We'll never know. Or just a cunning plan revolving around some stuff that got removed before the codex release.

About sticking Grotsnik + Megaboss + Ghaz in a wagon...That's 550+ points outright before a wagon. I'd rather have 2 wagonz full of boyz than this underwhelming deathstar that's an overkill and probably footslogging from turn 2 with so many points invested in one wagon.

The Deathstar can actually take down 60 boyz in combat...

Boyz attack
180 attacks- 90 hits- 15 wounds- 2.5 left after saves (not including DLS rerolls)- 1.67 wounds done after FNP

Deathstar Attacks (average +2 attacks from Rampage)
Warboss Attacks (DLS reroll once)- 7 attacks- 4.67 hits- 3.88 wounds
Grotsnik Attacks- 6 attacks- 4 hits- 3.33 wounds
Ghazzy (with attack squig) Attacks- 8 attacks- 5.33 hits- 4.44 wounds

The boyz have done less than 1.67 wounds (if they all get to attack) and the Deathstar has killed 11.65 boyz. It is actually a pretty Killy unit.

After 1 round, the boys will break from combat without insane courage


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And because they are all klaw attacks, it doesn't lose its effectiveness against MEQ. I definitely believe that this Deathstar shouldn't be used in small games because as stated, it costs a TON of points.

 Waaagh 18 wrote:
The Deathstar can actually take down 60 boyz in combat...

Boyz attack
180 attacks- 90 hits- 15 wounds- 2.5 left after saves (not including DLS rerolls)- 1.67 wounds done after FNP

Deathstar Attacks (average +2 attacks from Rampage)
Warboss Attacks (DLS reroll once)- 7 attacks- 4.67 hits- 3.88 wounds
Grotsnik Attacks- 6 attacks- 4 hits- 3.33 wounds
Ghazzy (with attack squig) Attacks- 8 attacks- 5.33 hits- 4.44 wounds

The boyz have done less than 1.67 wounds (if they all get to attack) and the Deathstar has killed 11.65 boyz. It is actually a pretty Killy unit.

After 1 round, the boys will break from combat without insane courage


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And because they are all klaw attacks, it doesn't lose its effectiveness against MEQ. I definitely believe that this Deathstar shouldn't be used in small games because as stated, it costs a TON of points.

I'm not arguing about the killiness. The thing is that 60 boyz will be spread in 2 squads and while one holds up the deathstar for 2 turns, the other rolls towards your backline leaving something behind to block your way so that such a deathstar. The boyz are also more mobile with run moves.

I called it underwhelming cause it's gona have problems vs other deathstars with ap2 or anything with invisibility.

It is balanced against other orks instead of other codexes... That's the problem. Also, a squad of 30 boyz won't last one round against this Deathstar... Against basic infantry it is almost unstoppable. The thing a canny ork general must do is (cliche I know) chop the shooty and shoot the choppy. This Deathstar should ALWAYS avoid other deathstars

How won't a squad of 30 last loosing just 10-12 +1-2 from mob rule?

Sorry... Wasn't counting mob rule...


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It will still only last one turn (2 rounds = 22 dead)

 Waaagh 18 wrote:
It is balanced against other orks instead of other codexes... That's the problem. Also, a squad of 30 boyz won't last one round against this Deathstar... Against basic infantry it is almost unstoppable. The thing a canny ork general must do is (cliche I know) chop the shooty and shoot the choppy. This Deathstar should ALWAYS avoid other deathstars

If you're going that route, you don't sink 550+ points into three models BEFORE you grab a transport. You're actually going to have to spend another 60 or so points minimum to make this work. Independent characters can't join other ICs on their own, so you need a unit of grotz / boys for al ltrhee to attach to. That's about 600 points before a transport, for three HQ's and a minimum squad of chaff.

Sure, it's dead-killy against basic troops.. But if you're looking for dead-killy against basic trooks, you can just go MANZ. 120 points in manz (+35 for a trukk) can hack their way through pretty much any basic unit with impunity, and they cost less than 20% of what you're suggesting with their transport included. If you want to get even killier, you throw throw a Lukky Stick MA boss into a unit of boyz in a wagon, maybe give it a painboy and a mek or two to soak challenges for him and the nob. That unit will butcher basic infantry BETTER and AGAIN be cheaper.

Ork's only have two deathstars. The bikerstar is our second best, and it's main strength is that it's very affordable by deathstar standards - it's still not something you want to throw against another nasty CC unit. The best one is the Waaaaagh! Council, but it also costs a fortune points wise and has massive mobility issues. Yet both of these suffer from the 'ork problem' when it comes to Deathstars.. They're just not very good compared to the stars of other races.

 morganfreeman wrote:
Independent characters can't join other ICs on their own, so you need a unit of grotz / boys for al ltrhee to attach to.

I believe, you can since 6-th ed. But overall it's correct.

We're also forgetting another important stuff. You're eating up all the HQ that'd buff your forces otherwise.

Anywayz, it's a fun idea and worth running for the heck of it!

For some reason I now want to call my ork buddy and charge my Council of the Waaagh! into his green tide, just to see what happens.

I totally want to play test it as well... And adding 10 fearless Grots to eat ID wounds would be super useful as there isn't a KFF to provide an invulnerable save

grots will lower the squad to t2.

Right... Boyz then

Though, it's faschinating in some way. Not only we've got a confusing LoW, we can even make him t2! Who can beat that?

from what i've tried, he is the least powerful LoW, as he has a terrible invun sv, so against Kaldor Draigo, etc, he dies too easily. give him some bodyguards, i guess.

monte wrote:
from what i've tried, he is the least powerful LoW, as he has a terrible invun sv, so against Kaldor Draigo, etc, he dies too easily. give him some bodyguards, i guess.

A terrible invul implies he actually has one.