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Is he viable at all now? It just seems like everything he does, the DLS MA Warboss does as well for 90 points less. I really would love to use him, so if anyone has any tips for using him with the new dex they are appreciated.

The big thing Ghaz brings to the table is an inv. save. Admittedly it is only for two turns, but it is a 2+ one, and other than on Kaptin Badrukk, Ghaz is our only source of an inv. save. He can still wreck face same as he always has, it just comes down to whether you need a 2+ base armor save with rerolls or an actual inv. save.

I thought it was only for one turn...


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And is that one turn worth the extra points?

it's two player turns, one complete turn.

and i would say no, a MA/DLS warboss does the same job, cheaper. he's a cool model though, so id use i!! but i feel like you're correct in thinking that you should go the cheaper route.

I still use Gazz in my ork army. I like to run him with a squad of nobs with a mixture of big choppas and power klaws with also a pain boy in a battle wagon. Gets him into the fight pretty fast, and that's what you really want for him, you don't want him getting shot to much.

I think some of the problem with Ghaz isn't that he's wildly underpowered (probably 10-15 points). The problem is that the DLS MA Warboss is just so powerful, seriously DLS is a really great item.

Ghaz was desined to empower meganobz rush. Maybe, he's worth it with bully boyz since half your army is allready 2+ and you don't need it rerollable and allready have ws5 and lots of pk attacks.

Why is he designed to help MANZ? He only boosts his squad of MANZ...

Eh...than he's just a fun choice. And his model is nice.

 koooaei wrote:
Ghaz was desined to empower meganobz rush. Maybe, he's worth it with bully boyz since half your army is allready 2+ and you don't need it rerollable and allready have ws5 and lots of pk attacks.

Which is the main reason that I don't use him anymore, since the change in fifth, he only helps things in mega armour. his warlord trait can now be gotten for regular warbosses anyway. he lost more than what he gained, which was nothing.

on to how to use him, buy the ork supplement, buy meganobz and use bully boyz. because that's the only way to make him useful.

Him allowing Meganobz to run helps only if you use Meganobz or the bully Boyz formation. Also during his Waagh your units are fearless which helps them stay around longer. If you just use him by himself the basic Warboss is better but add some of the other units and he is better.

Ok just explaining one thing: only his squad of MANZ can run on his Waaagh. Also, Bullyboyz are already fearless, so why would it help them especially?

It wouldn't, personally I would only take him in a Council of WAAAGH! formation since at least then he gets 3 warlord traits and a super-killy unit that has a minimum of WS6 for even the basic nob in the group. Ghazgkhull himself gets to be WS8 and with the unit allowing re-rolls on Morale/Pinning tests to all Ork units within 12" it would be one heck of an Orky deathstar that also supports the rest of your army while in the relative safety of the obligatory battlewagon transport. Obviously of course you could only field this optimally in a 2k list at the very least but that is fitting given that he is now a LoW choice.

Yes, the Council actually seems pretty viable... DLS MA Tank Warboss, nobs bare to soak wounds, and eat challenge, Big Mek for invulnerable save... 2nd Warboss to sit on bike and receive ID hits from DLS Warboss...


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Unless you want to put them in transport, then the second one can have ragnarok

Unfortunately, since this comes from the WAAAGH! Ghazghkull supplement the characters in the unit can only take relics from the supplement itself and prohibits Independent Characters from leaving or joining the unit, so it's a no-no for the DLS MA Warboss, which is a pity. On the plus side, you still have access to the 4+ invuln. Mega Kustom Force Field save, so it helps more against the stuff the unit is more afraid of like S10 AP2 demolisher shots.

I guess a MA Supa Cybork Warboss would do the same thing, even better maybe. If the DLS Warboss fails a Look out sir, he's pretty dead from ID. The Supa Cybork takes 20 AP 2 shots at BS3 to reliably kill him.

Shots
20 shots by AP 2
10 hit
8 wound
4 saved by Invulnerable from MFF
1 saved by FNP
(And he can always look out sir one or two onto the Nobz..)

The only issue would be what would accompany the rest of the Council of WAAAGH! in the army as they take up at almost 1k points by the time you add in their battlewagon. I would probably go for a battlewagon rush of 3 battlewagons filled with either 'ard boyz or normal boyz with 2-3 painboyz. Let's the boyz keep up with Ghazghkull without sacrificing armour saturation of AV14 in the front and when they disembark they get the 12" reroll morale support from fighting (I assume) within proximity of the Council.

So basically Ghazghkull is not playable on his own?


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With a Council it needs some thought but it could work...

Yeah, that's pretty much it, I was a big fan of him in 5th, but I use his model as DLS Warboss now.

The only advantage he really has is allowing a Waaagh! and two pain boyz in a single CAD, but the cost for that is too high.

The DLS seems really overpowered, which contributes to making Ghazzy less viable


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And for his council, the extra warlord traits he gets are still pretty bad, half of them don't really help him! If he could have traits from the normal book, THAT would help...

I'd not call DLS overpowered for the fact that it's either on a 4+ model or on a 2+ snp that relies on opentopped huge av12 side transport. And none of them have invul other than an expensive KFF mek that eats up an HQ slot and provides 4++ from range (that doesn't work from templates) at best. It's definitely one of the best relics and is totally worth it. But it's not an omnipotent shield eternal.
So, it's ballanced out by the outer factors.

As for Ghaz - yep, he's quite underwhelming in a regular 1-2k game. But maybe he could be used instead of a warboss to allow you a WAAAAGH! when you want to get 2-3 other HQ like painbosses, big meks, wierdboyz or named characters. Could work for large games. For example, when you're playing 3k+ it's almost guaranteed that you're gona meet so much s10 ap2 weaponry that DLS won't matter while Eternal Warrior could save your day.

Well, since formations count as a single unit then with Ghaz you can run with at least 15 meganobz. Deffinetly a nice bonus. And he is no HQ, so you can also take the MA Warboss with the Stikk, since you don't have to do the Great WAAAGH! detachment to get the meganobz.

 hordrak wrote:
Well, since formations count as a single unit

That is not a rule. Bully boyz are three units of five orks each.

It seems like Ghazghkull is viewed as worse in smaller games where there is less AP2 S10 stuff, but as points increase, the deadly guns increase and a Eternal Warrior becomes more valuable.

How to use Ghaz: Don't. :(

He's an over glorified Warboss at this point, and the profile for him doesn't do him a lick of justice. He's supposed to be this feared, powerful beast of an Ork who fears no one and no thing. Yet, he can be splatted pretty darn easily. The ONE character in our entire army you'd THINK would be granted a default invul save....doesn't get one. UNLESS you call his once per game Waaagh. So...there's that I guess...

And With all of that said and done, you'd probably be better off just taking a Warboss with Mega Armor ANYWAY for a LOT less points. Ghaz just can't pull his weight around worth a damn. Any game I've played him, he tends to die before he gets anywhere. Even if he is in a vehicle. He's FUN to play in a fluff list. He may do better in very small point games...but he costs almost as much as a Morkanaught, and THAT is capable of doing far more than he is.

Is Eternal Warrior as good as an invulnerable save? I mean it takes 4 hits to kill him guaranteed... Seriously though... He should have stuff like Da Supa Cybork, if he wasn't SNP (not that Da SC fixes this), had standard FNP, and was 25 points less he'd be balanced but as is... Meh (he's on the bottom of balanced)


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He'd need to help the rest of his army in some way for him to be a real Ghazzy (I wish he had the same stuff as last ed.)

Eternal Warrior is only good in the context of being used in conjunction with a decent invuln. save, which almost all other beatstick characters have (Shield Eternal Chapter Master, Abbadon, Lysander...). Also with 7th edition it's no longer a guarantee that it prevents you from being insta-gibbed now that strength D from guys like knights or stomps from super-heavies can outright remove models regardless of EW.

It's so clear about certain things to fix him that I've already put up my own custom rules on the Dakka Proposed Rules sub-forum, http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/613069.page

Haven't managed to try out my custom rule version yet, but I'll get back to you guys when I do.

That's an amazing ruleset... Seems well balanced... Now if only GW would make Ghazzy like that


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I don't think they realize he's 10 points less than a gorkanaught

I think he is more viable with a council... Which is meant for large games. Games Workshop probably does not want him being used in small games for some reason...

Maybe he could be useful in conjunction with a DLS MA Warboss... The DLS tanks wounds, and sends ID ones to Ghazzy (or an attached Supa Cybork guy). I think Ghazzy really needs a large group of Killy characters to really benefit an army as they can all run on his Waagh...

Its Gaz. He should have been a pure wrecking machine on par with Abaddon 5th ed.
But he is not :(

He rocks in fluff, less on the 'top.