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 Quickjager wrote:
I'm away from the codex so I cannot check, but everything is dependent on whether HoW is resolved before or after the challenge step. I would also have to check the assault section for more clear wording on challenges...

Every relevant bit has already been posted and the conclusion reached, why don't you just read it ?

 Quickjager wrote:
The way to resolve it following the rules would then be.

HoW is resolved, target is dead and whatever excess wounds remain get allocated.

However the rest of the attacks for the turn cannot be made by the DK.

Essentially HoW is his only attack for the turn.

Or

HoW is resolved as a part of the assault phase. Both sides continue to roll their to-hit and to-wound, etc.

After Initiative 1 attacks are resolved, saves are made FOR ALL. Then as the Initiative 10 attacks are resolved and the DK slays the challengee, the defeated losses all of its attacks after Initiative 10 step; the remaining attacks are still rolled to be saved however any failures are allocated to the unit.

I'm away from the codex so I cannot check, but everything is dependent on whether HoW is resolved before or after the challenge step. I would also have to check the assault section for more clear wording on challenges...

Read the thread, the green text (quoted above) in the challenge rules indicate that the challenge ends as soon as one of the challengers is slain (except for the purposes of 'outside forces'). I really can't see how your first interpretation can happen. A model can't spontaneously loose it's ability to swing for no reason. Your second interpretation doesn't answer the OPs question which is what WS/T the DK rolls against with it's subsequent attacks, fortunately this thread is all about that and we have all be discussing it at great length

 Quickjager wrote:
I'm away from the codex so I cannot check, but everything is dependent on whether HoW is resolved before or after the challenge step. I would also have to check the assault section for more clear wording on challenges...

Since it happens at initiative step 10, it would be after the challenge begins.

I'm less sure about the answer of this question having read through the rules again. The challenge is explicitely considered "ongoing" even in the initiative steps after one of the combatants is slain. If the DK can in fact attack again at Initiative 4 (like he would normally do if his opponents was still alive), would he attack against the Opponent's WS, T and armor save, even if that models is dead? Remember, any excess wounds would have been caused as a side-effect of fighting challangee itself, not from directly attacking his squad (who might have lower WS, worse armor saves, and so would otherwise probably be taking more wounds than if the challenge weren't happening). My gut feeling is that the DK does not get to attack, since he doesn't have a valid target. He is still in an ongoing challenge, and only has permission to strike blows against his challangee (any ancillary excess wounds that bleed over to the squad because he killed his opponent are sort of besides the point - he doesn't have permission to directly attack the squad until the turn after the challenge ends).

This is an issue in all cases where a model fights at two different initiative steps (e.g., Logan Grimnar). The rulebook seems to be sort of predicated on the notion that a model in a challenge is only ever fighting at one initiative level.

The remaining challenger can lose his attacks if he is no longer engaged though, since he can not pile in, he may be too far from the fighting. Admittedly this only happens rarely.

 DanielBeaver wrote:

 Quickjager wrote:
I'm away from the codex so I cannot check, but everything is dependent on whether HoW is resolved before or after the challenge step. I would also have to check the assault section for more clear wording on challenges...

Since it happens at initiative step 10, it would be after the challenge begins.

I'm less sure about the answer of this question having read through the rules again. The challenge is explicitely considered "ongoing" even in the initiative steps after one of the combatants is slain. If the DK can in fact attack again at Initiative 4 (like he would normally do if his opponents was still alive), would he attack against the Opponent's WS, T and armor save, even if that models is dead? Remember, any excess wounds would have been caused as a side-effect of fighting challangee itself, not from directly attacking his squad (who might have lower WS, worse armor saves, and so would otherwise probably be taking more wounds than if the challenge weren't happening). My gut feeling is that the DK does not get to attack, since he doesn't have a valid target. He is still in an ongoing challenge, and only has permission to strike blows against his challangee (any ancillary excess wounds that bleed over to the squad because he killed his opponent are sort of besides the point - he doesn't have permission to directly attack the squad until the turn after the challenge ends).

This is an issue in all cases where a model fights at two different initiative steps (e.g., Logan Grimnar). The rulebook seems to be sort of predicated on the notion that a model in a challenge is only ever fighting at one initiative level.

Actually the rules state EXACTLY the OPPOSITE of that. They state that the challenge is ongoing for the purposes of 'outside forces', which implies that the challenge is over for all other purposes.

I think he was talking about the DK specifically, in which case he is correct in his wording.

The DK is still in a challenge for everyone outside the bubble those 2 models previously occupied.

But for the DK, the challenge is over. Now we are reduced to scrounging through the rules to find something that says the remaining attacks can even be made.

... and who is engaged with an enemy model must fight.
A model is engaged in combat if:
-Determine who can Fight

As long as the Model meets the requirements after that section it has no choice, it is required to complete it's Attack unless something further Restricts it.
It is not a matter of finding something that says the remaining attacks have permission to be made, they have permission to do so by default.

Can Dreadknights declare challenges? Are they Character Monstrous Creatures?

axisofentropy wrote:
Can Dreadknights declare challenges? Are they Character Monstrous Creatures?

The Dreadknight is indeed, a character.

This whole thread is a testament to just how stupid the 6th edition challenge rules were. But well done that man and his multicolor text explanation of how things work in 7th, which in my mind makes a lot more sense! Once you beat down the would-be challenger, you are quite free to start raining blows upon the demoralized underlings. Fluffy and crunchy together at last.

To summarize, what's happening, and why it's happening:

- DK charges, charge is resolved.
- DK challenges, archon accepts. Archon gets moved to be in base contact with DK, due to challenge rules.
- Combat phase starts.
- Because Archon is in BtB, DK resolves HoW at I10 on archon. Kills Archon, wins challenge.
- At I6 Incubi get to pile in 3" and attack. If there would be other models in this particular close combat, they should have attacked those models. Because only DK is in this close combat, by the rules of Outside Force, Incubi get the opportunity to hit the DK.
- At I4 DK could make pile in move, but as Incubi have already done that, he stays. Challenge rules say, that is still inside the challenge (because he was at I10), until the end of the phase! So he proceeds to do his attacks against the WS and T of the archon. If he does any wounds, all these wound spill over to the Incubi (allocation).
- DK did 3+x wounds, Incubi did y wounds, determine who won the combat, etc.

This is one of the things that 7th made better and easier.

Tyrpak wrote:
- At I4 DK could make pile in move, but as Incubi have already done that, he stays. Challenge rules say, that is still inside the challenge (because he was at I10), until the end of the phase! So he proceeds to do his attacks against the WS and T of the archon. If he does any wounds, all these wound spill over to the Incubi (allocation).

How are you rolling Attacks against a model that isn't there?

 grendel083 wrote:

Tyrpak wrote:
- At I4 DK could make pile in move, but as Incubi have already done that, he stays. Challenge rules say, that is still inside the challenge (because he was at I10), until the end of the phase! So he proceeds to do his attacks against the WS and T of the archon. If he does any wounds, all these wound spill over to the Incubi (allocation).

How are you rolling Attacks against a model that isn't there?

"When one of the combatants in a challenge is slain,regardless of which initiative step it is, the challenge is still considered to be ongoing until the end of the phase for the purposes of Outside Forces (see opposite)"

Ongoing challenge, with the challengee still being the Archon.

Tyrpak wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:

Tyrpak wrote:
- At I4 DK could make pile in move, but as Incubi have already done that, he stays. Challenge rules say, that is still inside the challenge (because he was at I10), until the end of the phase! So he proceeds to do his attacks against the WS and T of the archon. If he does any wounds, all these wound spill over to the Incubi (allocation).

How are you rolling Attacks against a model that isn't there?

"When one of the combatants in a challenge is slain,regardless of which initiative step it is, the challenge is still considered to be ongoing until the end of the phase for the purposes of Outside Forces (see opposite)"

Ongoing challenge, with the challengee still being the Archon.

You left part out.

For the duration of the challenge, these two models are considered to be in base contact with each other and, when rolling To Hit and To Wound, they always use the Weapon Skill and Toughness of their opponent.

Tyrpak wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:

Tyrpak wrote:
- At I4 DK could make pile in move, but as Incubi have already done that, he stays. Challenge rules say, that is still inside the challenge (because he was at I10), until the end of the phase! So he proceeds to do his attacks against the WS and T of the archon. If he does any wounds, all these wound spill over to the Incubi (allocation).

How are you rolling Attacks against a model that isn't there?

"When one of the combatants in a challenge is slain,regardless of which initiative step it is, the challenge is still considered to be ongoing until the end of the phase for the purposes of Outside Forces (see opposite)"

Ongoing challenge, with the challengee still being the Archon.

The challenge is only considered ongoing for the purposes of outside forces. For all other purposes the challenge is over and therefore the dk can strike whoever he wishes as normal because he is no longer in a challenge.