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 adamsouza wrote:

Crypteks - Need to be in plastic. I've seen more Lychguard models converted into Cryoteks than actual Crypteks. I'm using converted Pariahs myself.

I've seen more Lychguard/Praetoratin models converted into Crypteks than actual Lychguards/Praetoratins.

Hubris wrote:Chaos Space Marines, i love the look of the Dark Vengeance models and other newer kits but the basic Marines really let the army down now.

hellpato wrote:Basic Chaos space marine and the Khorn berzekers. The csm look more like marauder than space marines corupted by the warp. For the berzekers, since FW did the WE Rampager,, Berzekers look like CSM with fancy helmets.

Be careful what you wish for, I forsee a near future where GW release a new CSM box, and then force you to take only cultists or nonal CSM as troops to sell the new box... Cult troops staying in elites!!! #FearMongering

I agree, give the sisters of battle new models, new sculpts in plastic!

As has been said before, the Sisters of Battle are the most in need of plastic models, however, I do want to say my piece on this. Sisters...are complicated. So few bother with them that we still do have the metal models. We know that GW doesn't make more. It's not as cost effective, and we know how GW loves to cut costs. Until we completely sell through the dwindling stock of sisters, the odds are high that demand will never reach a level that will justify the plastification of the range. I can bet that plastic masters exist, and probably have for the last half decade or more, but GW has no reason to show them. Until we the dedicated playerbase show through the purchasing of the remaining stock, we can only hold this idea at arms length.

A) Drazhar
B) Stormtalon

 goblinking201 wrote:
I think the Ork boyz need to have an update. I feel that the poses are old and outdated.

Oh, holy crap. Don't let them touch the ork boyz. They'll make new ones incompatible with all the other kits. I'll take old and outdated if it means that they will work with all the ork bits. GW's work on the Blood Angels scared me.

On the other hand:

Ork Buggies and Wartrakks. I love the models, but they are geezers at this point. They need badly to be updated to be visually and mechanically compatible with the other ork vehicles and machines.

Deff Koptas. I don't really think the models need to be updated, as much as...be available.

Vostroyan IG, Sisters, Cryteks, Trans. Ctan, Logan's Christmas ride, Ragnar, Swooping Hawks, Centurions, Multilators, Cult CSM.

Dreadknight, many IG regiments like Mordians, Vostroyans etc.

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
As has been said before, the Sisters of Battle are the most in need of plastic models, however, I do want to say my piece on this. Sisters...are complicated. So few bother with them that we still do have the metal models. We know that GW doesn't make more. It's not as cost effective, and we know how GW loves to cut costs. Until we completely sell through the dwindling stock of sisters, the odds are high that demand will never reach a level that will justify the plastification of the range. I can bet that plastic masters exist, and probably have for the last half decade or more, but GW has no reason to show them. Until we the dedicated playerbase show through the purchasing of the remaining stock, we can only hold this idea at arms length.

That's called a 'catch 22'. Dammed if they do, dammed if they don't. However for SoB is more of a...players who want to play SoB won't buy the models because they are expensive and all metal and because of that SoB are not selling GW won't do anything with them. I don't dought that their are some SoB players that would like to walk into GW HQ and slap the crap out of the head decision makers because the majority of the SoB line still uses the same models that were released 20 years ago (yes 20 years SoB released in 1997). GW's poster-boy SM's get new model releases each year and they can't seem to pull their head out their arse and wonder why SoB don't sell as well as other armies.

However DE were in a similar situation before their re-vamp and look at them now.

Talys wrote:
Yes, why is Calistarius (Space Hulk) such an awesome model, and Mephiston such an ugly one?

I think it's because he has the pose that was spammed in 2nd ed -gun arm perpendicular to the body, and sword arm just sticking out enough to give some but not much action to the model. I call it the "Standing around doing nothing in particular pose." I think the banded effect on his chest plate does him no favours either, nor does that giant collar, it reminds me of the cone of shame!

Da Butcha wrote:

 goblinking201 wrote:
I think the Ork boyz need to have an update. I feel that the poses are old and outdated.

Oh, holy crap. Don't let them touch the ork boyz. They'll make new ones incompatible with all the other kits. I'll take old and outdated if it means that they will work with all the ork bits. GW's work on the Blood Angels scared me.

On the other hand:

Ork Buggies and Wartrakks. I love the models, but they are geezers at this point. They need badly to be updated to be visually and mechanically compatible with the other ork vehicles and machines.

Deff Koptas. I don't really think the models need to be updated, as much as...be available.

GW confuses me a little on this deffkopta thing too. They've had te AoBR models floating around for years now, but still rely on the wierd old goofy one. GW even uses the newer one in all of its photos. They seem to avoid putting the buggies or tracks in though, for obvious purposes.

I love the Ork boyz models though. Simple yet still have character. I'd like to see some updates heads or more options, that is all. Or a kit to make hard boyz

Old One Eye and the Red Terror. Need a serious update.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Nobody has mentioned Rough Riders yet?



Seriously...I'm surprised they're even still in the codex, GW doesn't even sell them anymore XD

Good call, the death korps one are fantastic but I would love to see some cadian motorbikes or quads!

Every 2nd edition sculpt that's still knocking around.

Tycho
Dante
Mephiston
Corbulo
Ragnar
Njall
Azrael
The Phoenix Lords

Are just a few off the top of head.

I'll be the devil's advocate and say:

If painted properly SOB and Tycho look really awesome.

building an army out of them though...

Tau firewarriors and crisis suits have not aged well. Compare the model detail between a firewarrior and pathfinder and it makes the firewarriors look like cheap imitations. Such lack of detail and quality when the pathfinder box has way more detail, bits, equipment, and relatively the same model count if you count all the variation of drones included in the pathfinder box. Both are basically the same price now despite the giant divide in quality.

Crisis suits also lack a lot of detail and have the wierd legs and arms which makes them look really stiff. The new broadsides and crisis commander shows what a higher detail model can to improve the Tau aesthetic.

I would say the devilfish/hammerhead based models but they have aged well enough to not need a new model.

Da Butcha wrote:

 goblinking201 wrote:
I think the Ork boyz need to have an update. I feel that the poses are old and outdated.

Oh, holy crap. Don't let them touch the ork boyz. They'll make new ones incompatible with all the other kits. I'll take old and outdated if it means that they will work with all the ork bits. GW's work on the Blood Angels scared me.

On the other hand:

Ork Buggies and Wartrakks. I love the models, but they are geezers at this point. They need badly to be updated to be visually and mechanically compatible with the other ork vehicles and machines.

Deff Koptas. I don't really think the models need to be updated, as much as...be available.

Ork Boyz are pure gold.

They are the only models I've seen that even after 4 editions don't look like total gak (cadians...)

Also what happened to Blood Angels?

 fox-light713 wrote:

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
As has been said before, the Sisters of Battle are the most in need of plastic models, however, I do want to say my piece on this. Sisters...are complicated. So few bother with them that we still do have the metal models. We know that GW doesn't make more. It's not as cost effective, and we know how GW loves to cut costs. Until we completely sell through the dwindling stock of sisters, the odds are high that demand will never reach a level that will justify the plastification of the range. I can bet that plastic masters exist, and probably have for the last half decade or more, but GW has no reason to show them. Until we the dedicated playerbase show through the purchasing of the remaining stock, we can only hold this idea at arms length.

That's called a 'catch 22'. Dammed if they do, dammed if they don't. However for SoB is more of a...players who want to play SoB won't buy the models because they are expensive and all metal and because of that SoB are not selling GW won't do anything with them. I don't dought that their are some SoB players that would like to walk into GW HQ and slap the crap out of the head decision makers because the majority of the SoB line still uses the same models that were released 20 years ago (yes 20 years SoB released in 1997). GW's poster-boy SM's get new model releases each year and they can't seem to pull their head out their arse and wonder why SoB don't sell as well as other armies.

However DE were in a similar situation before their re-vamp and look at them now.

Hey, it's this fairy tale again.

There's no Catch-22. I don't think you understand what a Catch-22 is (though you should read the novel. It's excellent). Not updating the Sisters has obviously been a conscious choice. The problem people have is that they believe that a company has to want to sell every product it ever makes. Like I showed before, the Squats had a much larger model range (by an almost 3:1 margin) and was abandoned. Genestealer Cult had approximately the same size model line and was abandoned. When you realize that you didn't even need Sisters of Battle to play their 3rd Edition Codex, and there hasn't been a printed codex since then, you realize there's no accident at work here.

Space Marines get more models because they sell. They don't sell because they get more models. You can't just manufacture demand like that. Sure, you'd sell plastic Sisters, but will you sell more plastic Sisters than you will whatever else you could have made instead of plastic Sisters? It's clear the answer is no, at least as far as Games Workshop is concerned. There are plenty of ancient models in the GW line. Eldar Aspect Warriors for example. Why haven't they been converted to plastic yet? Why are the ugly Chaos Marine, Cadian, and Catachan lines still being made?

What Games Workshop is in right now is a "This works fine, maybe damned if we do." Sisters are essentially a zero-cost product right now. Selling the e-Codex is easy profits. Fluff recycled from White Dwarfdex. Art recycled from other license material. No physical copies to ship/stock. If they sell the metal models, they're making a killing on them. People say "GW so stupid. Look how much a Sisters of Battle Squad costs! No wonder nobody buys them!" What they don't realize is that the price of the models is so high because Games Workshop probably doesn't care whether they sell any or not. Selling more Sisters means casting and stocking more Sisters. Cancelling the Sisters line endangers the IP. Keeping the status quo means 3rd party designers can't too closely mock up a Sisters line to compete.

"Why wouldn't GW want to sell more models? That's silly!" Well, maybe. But you have to realize that GW wants to keep their product lines deep, rather than broad. Expanding the Sisters line costs money. So influencing new players away from the Sisters means they can hope that directs them towards more profitable product lines. Every time you read somebody in a thread say "I would have played Sisters but I played "X" instead because it's cheaper" is almost certainly exactly what GW is trying to do. There's a basic, effectively "fixed" cost to each army. So you profit more by selling more of 12 armies than the same amount of total models across 13 armies. The only reason you would revamp the Sisters is if you believe it creates more demand. If it mostly just cannibalizes sales from another product line, you haven't actually made any money. Hence why the only "new" product lines for 40K in the last ten years have been fortifications and Knights.

The business game is a lot more complicated than most of you realize. Sure "A total revamp like the Dark Eldar could make Sisters succeed!" Is that what Games Workshop actually wants? They're having a hard enough time with declining revenue and profits as it is. Better to focus on selling through your proven product lines rather than risk money against an unknown variable which hasn't succeeded in the past either. If you look at the pledged total Kickstarter for those ridiculous Raging Cheesecake models, that's not even 1% of GW's annual revenue. That's not even a needle mover.

Anyhow, that all said (again, lol), let's hear all the factually unsupported, emotionally charged reasons why what I just said is total hooey.


I do agree that the Sisters are most in need of a complete overhaul though. Your reasoning is just terrible, and it's a rose-colored fabrication that gets repeated so often in the community, people actually believe it's true. It's a pleasant lie; one that fosters hope for a better future. Like one told to a child about there not being bad people, or that their teddy bear will protect them from any monsters under the bed. On that topic, I watched The Good Lie the other day. It was a pretty good movie.

I'm not sure which I'm more amazed by.

The fact that Veteran Sergeant persists in replying harshly to anything vaguely hopeful about the Sisters, or the fact that he hasn't resorted to copy-pasting when he insists that a what, four hundred word essay is the only way to get his point across.

I thought it was an interesting enough post and had not read it before.

Ragnar... The 80's rocker model is pretty brutal.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

Space Marines get more models because they sell. They don't sell because they get more models. You can't just manufacture demand like that.

I would take issue with this to some degree. There is very definitely something to be said for large, available product lines increasing demand over an army with little availability. Space Marines have cheap (relatively) kits for every single unit, they're all available in stores, and they're all relatively new kits. Sisters are direct order only, they're more expensive, with very dated sculpts, and the range is fairly limited. For anyone looking into an army, the Sisters are thus going to be drastically less popular simply based on those things alone. There are large market barriers to playing Sisters.

Dark Eldar used to be very similar to Sisters of Battle, they weren't available in stores (direct order only), their models were old and ugly, and they were exceedingly rare. GW redid the entire line (directing more of it into plastic and less metal/finecast), and reintroduced them to shelves. Now they're a fairly popular and common army, while before they were practically nonexistent.

 PastelAvenger wrote:
Every 2nd edition sculpt that's still knocking around.

Tycho
Dante
Mephiston
Corbulo
Ragnar
Njall
Azrael
The Phoenix Lords

Are just a few off the top of head.

Njal has been updated

Generic Chaos Lords should get a plastic model

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
Sisters...are complicated. So few bother with them that we still do have the metal models. We know that GW doesn't make more. It's not as cost effective, and we know how GW loves to cut costs. Until we completely sell through the dwindling stock of sisters, the odds are high that demand will never reach a level that will justify the plastification of the range.

They would sell a lot faster if the weren't fething £50 per squad! Why is it they can sell ten metal Valhallans (from the 1990s) for £20.50, yet ten metal sister (from the 1990s) costs £50? I actually think they use the Sisters range to test the Space Marine market to destruction. Every time someone is foolish enough to buy a Sisters squad for [insert crazy price], GW concludes money must be worthless again, so they add £2 to everything they sell.

Sisters, Steel Legion

 Smacks wrote:
Why is it they can sell ten metal Valhallans (from the 1990s) for £20.50, yet ten metal sister (from the 1990s) costs £50?

It's true, and not just of those 2 kits -There is a huge inconsistency in the value of models across the hobby.
-It isn't gauged on volume of material used (two man size characters can equal the cost of a large tank or dragon)
-Or on model count, for clear reasons
-Nor on number of parts either. I remember someone trying to justify this as the reason why Grey Knights are so highly priced, until I pointed out that the vastly cheaper Space Wolves Pack has a similar number of parts
-Clearly there is a higher production cost on more detailed kits, but as you've pointed out, this is not justified when the models become substandard due to age
-And by connection on characters and elite units that are in less demand than troops, and therefore need a higher unit cost. (It still doesn't justify €25 for a SM captain though)

The only thing that the price tag remotely corresponds to really is points values. And even then, only roughly.

Of course "value" is debatable, depending on how much of a gamer and how much of a modeller one is. I was pretty impressed when my friend picked up 10 Kabalite warriors and 10 ork boyz for €23 per box, compared to my wolves coming in at about €30 for the same model count. But points wise I'm getting more value.

Ork warbuggy, Its basically a 3rd edition metal mold, dark angels also need a new azreal model. His model is the same as it was in 4th ed except finecast.

 Great White wrote:

 PastelAvenger wrote:
Every 2nd edition sculpt that's still knocking around.

Tycho
Dante
Mephiston
Corbulo
Ragnar
Njall
Azrael
The Phoenix Lords

Are just a few off the top of head.

Njal has been updated

Not in power armour he hasn't.

 PastelAvenger wrote:

 Great White wrote:

 PastelAvenger wrote:
Every 2nd edition sculpt that's still knocking around.

Tycho
Dante
Mephiston
Corbulo
Ragnar
Njall
Azrael
The Phoenix Lords

Are just a few off the top of head.

Njal has been updated

Not in power armour he hasn't.

Didn't think about that one...so yeah add Njal to the update list as he looks like a 80s rocker

 thegreatchimp wrote:

 Smacks wrote:

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
Why is it they can sell ten metal Valhallans (from the 1990s) for £20.50, yet ten metal sister (from the 1990s) costs £50?

It's true, and not just of those 2 kits -There is a huge inconsistency in the value of models across the hobby.
-It isn't gauged on volume of material used (two man size characters can equal the cost of a large tank or dragon)
-Or on model count, for clear reasons
-Nor on number of parts either. I remember someone trying to justify this as the reason why Grey Knights are so highly priced, until I pointed out that the vastly cheaper Space Wolves Pack has a similar number of parts
-Clearly there is a higher production cost on more detailed kits, but as you've pointed out, this is not justified when the models become substandard due to age
-And by connection on characters and elite units that are in less demand than troops, and therefore need a higher unit cost. (It still doesn't justify €25 for a SM captain though)

The only thing that the price tag remotely corresponds to really is points values. And even then, only roughly.

Of course "value" is debatable, depending on how much of a gamer and how much of a modeller one is. I was pretty impressed when my friend picked up 10 Kabalite warriors and 10 ork boyz for €23 per box, compared to my wolves coming in at about €30 for the same model count. But points wise I'm getting more value.

Fix your quote, I didn't say that. Why prices vary, I do not know, nor do I care. My point still stands that until the last of the pewter sisters sell, we probably won't see any changes. Ironically, if every player picked up a single blister of 3 sisters, we could probably see a major shift. I would say in a brief moment of insight, that the complete loss of the core troop of a Sisters army would definitely catapult GW into declaring something, whether it is a continuance in metal, discontinuance of the line, or shift to a new medium.