How Much Do You pay for HQs?

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**Desubot**

I try to keep them sub 100 but its usually around 100-150 ish

I also dont make silly wombocombo or unkillable lords as its so uninspiring.

i like my imperial fist lib with bones of osker whatever, at lv2. cheap simple and to the point and helps the rest of my army which i feel is more important.

**vipoid**

Rippy wrote:
I look at it like "will they make their points back in kills". If yes, then it doesn't matter how many points he is!

What about for support HQs, who aren't likely to make their points back in kills?

Desubot wrote:

I also dont make silly wombocombo or unkillable lords as its so uninspiring.

I don't mind beatstick lords, but I do find 'unkillable' HQs incredibly dull to face.

**Ailaros**

vipoid wrote:
Rippy wrote:
I look at it like "will they make their points back in kills". If yes, then it doesn't matter how many points he is!

What about for support HQs, who aren't likely to make their points back in kills?

Right. I like the idea of putting sorcerers on a bike for this very reason. Sometimes you just need to cast that spell over there, than over here, especially if it's a necessary buff to your own units.

Likewise, if a guard player is bringing an advisor, it makes more sense to buy a chimera to protect the unit than without.

**docdoom77**

It depends on the army, but so far, never over 200 points. I try to keep them as cheap as can be and still get the job. I'd really never gone above 120, until I started facing Wraitknights. A Jump Captain with Eternal Shield and Powerfist can usually put him to bed (if supported by an assault squad). He comes to 180.

**Deafbeats**

I really like the Farseer on a bike for about 170 points I think. Bike, Singing Spear, Mantle of the Laughing god. He zooms about casting spells on my Wraithknights, fire Dragons, Wave Serpents... etc etc.

**The Internet is for Khorn**

GW charges way too much for Chaos Daemons HQ ($60 for a greater daemon?!?!?!!?) so anywhere from $120-$250 depending on the list.

**Ashtastic**

GK Libby is standard 165 (ML3, Domina, Storm Bolter)

If I had to trim the fat I can drop him to 115 by losing the ML3 and Domina but I don't like to.

EDIT: Words.

**StarHunter25**

Flyrants run 235, toxin-tyrant+ guard runs about 400. Reaper tyrant in the skytyrant is about 250, then another 320 for his horde of gargoyles.

**vipoid**

Powerfisting wrote:

So lets start a discussion on how much you spend (points wise) on HQs relative to the points limit. And then, lets take some common points levels (1000, 1500, 1850 etc) and talk about what is appropriate to spend on an HQ versus what will result in diminished returns.

In terms of diminishing returns, I think overall point cost is less of an issue - it's more important to look at what the individual equipment is bringing. e.g. on a beatstick HQ, do you need a Storm Shield when you already have a 4++? Really, I think it often comes down to being overprepared - when you start thinking "but what if this happens? I'd better take X just in case. And, what if he ends up in combat with this special character? I'd better take Y and Z to give him a fighting chance... etc." Before you know it, he's got everything up to and including the kitchen sink.

Basically, it's generally best to pick a role and stick to it - rather than trying to cover all eventualities (that's what the rest of your army is for).

I think it's often interesting to use your HQs at lower point levels, when you can't afford all their gear and have to leave some behind. It's often an eye-opener as to what gear you don't find yourself missing.

**Nightlord1987**

One thing I hate about my CSM list is when my tooled up T6 2+ 4++ IWND Biker Lord downgrades into a slow and Purposeful T5 3+ 5++ Daemon Prince worth about 50 points cheaper due to winning a fight..... 200 points is my absolute limit on any HQ, and I rarely field more than one.

**Homeskillet**

While I enjoy having expensive beatstick characters in games, I've been finding over time that the "boys before toys" mentality holds true with HQs. If I keep my HQs cheap and utilitarian, I can get more killy stuff on the field.

So for competitive games, I keep 'em cheap; for fun games, I bring out the Draigos and Chapter Masters of the world.

**skarnalaxwarlord**

All the games I've played are casual, so my DP clocks in at around 280. On the one hand, I just kissed over 25% of my points goodbye. On the other hand, he's known for tanking anything short of Lysander.

On the flip-side of the coin, my Chaos Lord/Sorcerer comes in under 150 and he can reliably deal with most threats but they're still easier to kill/stall then my DP, so it really just boils down to who my HQ is.

vipoid wrote:
As a question, does anyone use custom characters?

As in, giving them abilities or items that you've made up?

I did make my own Chaos Lord. He had mixed reviews as his raw stats were all right, but his Warlord Trait and Artefacts of Chaos were a custom ones I made so they didn't go over well.

The Executioner-270
Chaos Lord with; the Baleshadow (S8 Ap2, Two-handed and Fleshbane sword), Blight Grenades, Chain of Skulls (Gives him 3++ and a ML of 2), + 1WS, Attack, and Wound
Has Veterans of the Long War by default, Eternal Warrior, and he must re-roll DP and Spawn results on the Boon Table.
Warlord Trait: Warlord of Skarnalax (Allies in 6" re-roll to hit and to-wound)

**Poly Ranger**

My favourite HQ is bargelord with scythe, mss, phase shifter and sepremental weave. Comes in at 245pts and is exceptionally dangerous and durable. I have 2 of these and wouldn't hesitate to take 2 in a 2k game. Then there are the court members they unlock. Necrons can work quite well losing a third of their points on their HQs (inc court).

For BA it was usually a cheap libby or going to the other extreme - mephistion, although I would usually include priests and maybe corbs as well and these are now HQs in the new dex.

For CSM I go all out and usually take a juggerlord with aobf, huron and cypher (or maybe abbadon too if a high points game) Thats mega points.

**Bobthehero**

A lot for the CCS, because I need filler to hit 2k points.
Significantly less on the Commissar General and the Quartermaster, as I only give them Carapace armor and Melta bombs, they cost me about 80 points each.

**Melevolence**

My philosophy is no exception to just HQs. But to all units. Keep em cheap so you can save points for MORE stuff. But then again, Orks are pretty easy. We don't generally have many upgrades to work with, and even if we do, most of them are so obviously terrible you don't bother with em. I tend to keep my Warbosses as cheap as I can, as they will inevitably bite the dust anyway, or they are strictly for tank/mc hunting. A 60 point base Warboss then just add a Klaw and Bosspole and then he's pretty much done. I rarely give him much else unless he is tagging along with Mega Nobz or something.

As for other armies, I dread looking at their HQs and their options. I'd get too greedy :I

**Waaargh**

I usually compare my HQ to a daemon prince - can he beat it or will my HQ be a blood splatter? My warboss will be kept cheap as he cannot handle a prince, with mega armor, PK and DLS. My chaptermaster will be build for daemon hunting and prove a nice tank if a libby decides to join the fun. CM will have all the no-brainer choices.

**Kangodo**

With my Blood Angels it depends.
Sometimes I go minimal and only take a Librarian or Chaplain.
But sometimes I like to field a Priest, Corbulo and Dante.
And then a Formation with a Terminator Captain/Librarian.

**Selym**

My favourite HQ comes in at 410 points. As an IG army, that's a helluva lot, but it's also used as my 4th heavy support slot, and is Pask in a Punisher with an Exterminator. Both have Lascannons, one has Multi Melta sponsons, the other has Heavy Bolters. And Dozer Blades. Exact kit is subject to change, but that's my usual basis for a HQ. As long as I can use my artillery to remove infantry, this thing is a total bitch.
If I were playing my chaos, I's either go all out in the HQ department, or take as little as possible. Middle ground there just gets me killed.

With Pask, my usual aim is to take out my most common opponent's Predator tanks and Dreadnoughts. And my other main opponent often uses Orks, who cry as soon as this hits the table, as they have little response to it.

**vipoid**

Waaargh wrote:
I usually compare my HQ to a daemon prince - can he beat it or will my HQ be a blood splatter? My warboss will be kept cheap as he cannot handle a prince, with mega armor, PK and DLS. My chaptermaster will be build for daemon hunting and prove a nice tank if a libby decides to join the fun. CM will have all the no-brainer choices.

Any particular reason you use a Daemon Prince for your comparisons?

**The Home Nuggeteer**

I have taken to running a pskisher (knight commander pask in a punisher with heavy bolter sponsons) and a normal russ battle tank lately, it comes to close to 400 pts fully kitted out but the 24 inch bubble of space around it my opponent is too afraid to put anything in is totally worth it.

Running guard i generally pay 100 to 300 pts on hqs total as I sometimes like to run a ccs and a lord commissar. This really only happens when i play blob guard and this does not account for the obligatory priest and primaris psykers. It can be pretty hefty but I have found that with the guard a durable support hq can multiply a force greatly.

**Rippy**

vipoid wrote:
Rippy wrote:
I look at it like "will they make their points back in kills". If yes, then it doesn't matter how many points he is!

What about for support HQs, who aren't likely to make their points back in kills?

To be honest I have only played a support HQ once, and didn't enjoy it. I will be adding a sorcerer on bike soon as a trial, so I will see if that changes my mind. So currently it's all about making points back for me lol

**Blacksails**

Guard commander.

Somewhere in the ballpark of 150, including a ride. Never exceeded 200.

With Pask now, that can easily go to 400pts, but that's a fair price for some quality Russes outside the heavy slot.

With the armoured battlegroup list, a nicely done command tank would be around ~200.

**vipoid**

Rippy wrote:
To be honest I have only played a support HQ once, and didn't enjoy it. I will be adding a sorcerer on bike soon as a trial, so I will see if that changes my mind. So currently it's all about making points back for me lol

Ah, fair enough.

I'm actually kinda the opposite - I quite like support HQs, though it's nice if they can also do *something* in combat.

But then, I also don't have a great deal of choice with the armies I play. To use your test, I don't think my Dark Eldar have anything capable of beating a Daemon Prince - which is not only stronger, tougher and more skilled, but also faster than my fragile HQs.

Maybe Urien if he gets lucky with Lethal Dose, but even that is pretty dicey - and I certainly wouldn't trust him against a lot of other HQs.

If I did have stronger options, I'd probably use a Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf (with Storm Shield, rerolls to-hit and the +1S AP2 Relic weapon) as my test. Mainly because that's what he'd be up against.

**some bloke**

As a general rule I tend to avoid making any unit over 200 points. for HQ's, they tend to be closer to the 100 point mark. megaboss with lukky stikk, a little over 100. only time i'll splash out is on a daemon prince, but then you always find yourself with the black mace on a flying nurgle prince rolling biomancy.

I never focus on the HQ in my list, they tend to be used as either support or an upgrade character for a squad. a warboss in a unit makes the unit better in combat, because he has lots of attacks. KFF mek makes the wagon die less.

I hate unkillables, the damn mantle jet farseer is so frikkin' annoying.

**Formosa**

skarnalaxwarlord wrote:
All the games I've played are casual, so my DP clocks in at around 280. On the one hand, I just kissed over 25% of my points goodbye. On the other hand, he's known for tanking anything short of Lysander.

On the flip-side of the coin, my Chaos Lord/Sorcerer comes in under 150 and he can reliably deal with most threats but they're still easier to kill/stall then my DP, so it really just boils down to who my HQ is.

vipoid wrote:
As a question, does anyone use custom characters?

As in, giving them abilities or items that you've made up?

I did make my own Chaos Lord. He had mixed reviews as his raw stats were all right, but his Warlord Trait and Artefacts of Chaos were a custom ones I made so they didn't go over well.

The Executioner-270
Chaos Lord with; the Baleshadow (S8 Ap2, Two-handed and Fleshbane sword), Blight Grenades, Chain of Skulls (Gives him 3++ and a ML of 2), + 1WS, Attack, and Wound
Has Veterans of the Long War by default, Eternal Warrior, and he must re-roll DP and Spawn results on the Boon Table.
Warlord Trait: Warlord of Skarnalax (Allies in 6" re-roll to hit and to-wound)

Are you really surprised that your custom rules got shot Down, it basically reads to me "all my chaos weakneses are gaaawn" strike at I and ap2 are gold, str8 fleshbane is ott, blight grenades? Nurgle I assume, 3++ ml2 wow, +1 ws +1 attack aaaaand +1 wound, eternal warrior, rr spawn, this guy sounds like he should be 300pts plus

**Waaargh**

vipoid wrote:
Waaargh wrote:
I usually compare my HQ to a daemon prince - can he beat it or will my HQ be a blood splatter? My warboss will be kept cheap as he cannot handle a prince, with mega armor, PK and DLS. My chaptermaster will be build for daemon hunting and prove a nice tank if a libby decides to join the fun. CM will have all the no-brainer choices.

Any particular reason you use a Daemon Prince for your comparisons?

I have faced the flying one with +d6 attacks plenty of times and I see it as the bar to make or fail at. If I cant beat it I will try a different approach than going equal at same point level and have us both loose our beat stick, or both avoid each other. So my ork warboss might as well come cheap and still be able to slap around the average/weak stuff.