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Maybe with your local folks it is okay, but volume of fire will eliminate too few TWC pretty quick.

Yep or even dangerous terrain tests lol.

My load out is usually

WGBL - Runic, fist, storm
2x Iron priest
3x T wolves, 1x pf/storm, 1x storm, 1x naked.

Works really well as I can seperate stuff off and still have a fist in the unit.

Also, iron priests being WS 4 has really hurt against a lot of the targets I need to hit. dont discount that WS 5 powerfist(thus never hitting on 5s)

 easysauce wrote:

 pretre wrote:
d) 1 SS/CCW, 2 BP/CCW

yeah thats how i run them,


one dude with a 3++ to tank a few shots, the rest are just stock as they come.


the iron preists are there to do the heavy hitting, and rending + more TWC will take care of more things, more efficiently, then spending those pts on weapon upgrades.

id be careful about putting a bike model in there, as you lose fleet.

It never occurred to me you don't need any power fists or hammers in the TWC since you'll be attaching Iron Priests. Some Wolf Claws and stormshields are definitely the way to go.

In regards to attaching a character(s) on a bike you can always split them off in the movement phase of you think you'll need fleet.

I see a lot of TWC lists' irons priests taking a lot of cyber wolves.

What's the reason for this?

Ablative wounds? Extra attacks?

Why are the points not spent on more TWC? Also, does losing the wolves force LD checks?

Cheap ablative wounds and yes, they cause ld checks.

Naaris wrote:
You gotta run them with a WGBL or Lord.

Again i run them expensive, and will give them a relic that rerolls hits.

I just think that getting to re-roll wounds and attacking at initiative is so much more powerful than getting ap2 hits but giving the opponent a chance to hit back.

This little TWC idea started as a Allied Detachment , beforeI was familiar with SW Detachments. Back then I took the Priest for Prescience and some more DtW dice.

Now that my TWC is WS5, I'm not so sure anymore if Prescience andthe chance of a Biomancy buff are still worth that much.

 pretre wrote:
I'd rather have a lord or WGBL than a priest, but that's me.

well its a given that you have one of those in addition to the iron preist, you do still have to take a HQ

The best part about the IP's isnt even them, its the cyber wolves, more t5 ablative wounds to throw at massed fire is nice to have, 4+ save as well to protect the real TWC

When ever I use TWC I usually use them with 6 w/ SS, IP and thunderlord with Krakenbone and SS and a lvl 2 RP on a bike. Unless facing a nurgle army this usually wrecks face.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
I see a lot of TWC lists' irons priests taking a lot of cyber wolves.

What's the reason for this?

Ablative wounds? Extra attacks?

Why are the points not spent on more TWC? Also, does losing the wolves force LD checks?

I am currently working on a list that is iron priest- and cyberwolf-heavy and my reasoning is that they give your TWC superunit a lot more flexibility once they move across the table. They are not just ablative wounds for the TWC unit - they also can peel off from the main unit and assault secondary targets. This allows you to get the benefit of staying grouped up - sharing buffs, LOS, etc - while still being able to charge 4-5 targets once in range. If you only took more TWC, you either wouldn't be able to keep everyone buffed or you wouldn't be able to separate the unit.

Example - two units of 5 TWC each + WGBL (list A) vs 4 TWC, WGBL, and 3 Iron Priests with 4 cyberwolves each (list B). List A is very very killy, but it is stuck to the size you decided on before the battle. You can peel of the lord, but those 5 TWC are forced to stay together and probably overkill the MSU guys your enemy has brought. List B is equally killy, but you now have the option to tailor your TWC blob to the exact right size for each engagement and use the remainder to attack a second or third target. You can peel off 2 iron priests and 8 cyberwolves to attack a 10-man tactical squad. You can send your TWC (armed with WC to compliment the TH on the iron priests) after the mob of ork boyz while the lord and 3 priests tackle the stompa. Flexibility after deployment is so important. The priests plus wolves attached to the big TWC unit give you a deathstar when you need it and MSU when you need that.

Also, cyberwolves with T5 and 5+ FNP (allied apothecary or 4+ FNP if you get lucky with biomancy) make pretty durable wounds. They can also accept challenges for you and have a decent number of attacks themselves. People often look at wolves as just a wound pool, but they basically have the same stats as assault marines (except more toughness).

 pretre wrote:
Take the points you save and chock them towards an Iron Priest with TWC.

As for the AP3, you have rending and a butt-ton of attacks. You'll do fine.

I saw these for the first time in action this past weekend. You don't nee a power weapon. You have plenty of attacks to get your rending. Ugh...

 kronk wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Take the points you save and chock them towards an Iron Priest with TWC.

As for the AP3, you have rending and a butt-ton of attacks. You'll do fine.

I saw these for the first time in action this past weekend. You don't nee a power weapon. You have plenty of attacks to get your rending. Ugh...

Every time I run them, the WC guys do a lot more damage than the nekkid ones. Not simply due to AP3, but more importantly shred. I mostly add the non-WC TWC guys in with SS+bolt pistol or bare to tank wounds before the charge.

Loadout I've been using to great effect - 1 WC&SS (leader), 1 dual WC (would probably change this one out), 1 BP&SS, 1 CCW&BP, WGBL with krakenbone & SS, iron priest.

Here's a mini Batrep from my first round at a local rtt versus a really good eldar-dark eldar player. Sorry but no pictures. :(

My list...

- White Scars
Chapter Master - bike - artificer armor - shield eternal - power fist - auspex

Librarian - Level 2 (telepathy) - bike - force axe - meltabombs

Command squad - bikes - chapter banner - power fist - 4x stormshield - 4x grav gun
Apothecary

4x SM biker - 2x grav gun
Sergeant - meltabombs
Attack bike - multi-melta

4x SM biker - 2x grav gun
Sergeant - meltabombs
Attack bike - multi-melta

- Space Wolves (CoF)
Wolf Lord - Thunderwolf - runic armor - stormshield - thunderhammer

Rune Priest Level 2 (divination) - bike - runic armor - force axe - meltabombs

Iron Priest - Thumderwolf - Cyberwolf

Iron Priest - bike - Cyberwolf

9x Grey Hunter - 2x meltagun - power axe
Wolf Guard - stormshield - frost axe
Drop pod


My opponent's list:

Spiritseer - Level 2

5x Wraithguard
Wave Serpent - holofield - scatter laser - shuriken cannon

5x Wraithguard
Wave Serpent - same as above

Wraithknight

Wraithknight

5x Talos (Corpsethief formation)

I roll up Invisibility and Perfect Timing...

I got Master of Ambush for my warlord trait but decided not to use it.

Deployment is Dawn of War and I go first. Mission is kill points with FB, StWL and LB. Opponent fails to seize.

Deathstar is all the characters attached to the command squad. I deploy 12" up in the middle and hide my two biker squads behind LoS blocking terrain.

Opponent deploys both WK and the Talos all hugging terrain.

First turn drop pod comes and I place it back in my deployment zone... They'll have a picnic this game...

Deathstar moves up 12" towards closest WK. Biker squads chill behind terrain.

Psychic phase I successfully cast Invisibility and Perfect Timing. Command squad grav guns unload into WK and smoke it for FB.

Talos move up to attempt a charge but fail by a couple inches... Remaining WK shoots the drop pod stripping one hull point.

2nd turn deathstar backs away from Talos just inside of grav gun range. Biker squads continue to chill. I successfully cast Perfect Timimg again but not Invisibility. Command squad unloads grav guns into Talos dropping two.

Serpent with the Spiritseer arrives from reserve. Wraithgusrd disembark to shoot their cannons at my deathstar. Chapter Master tanks all the wounds. Talos try to charge again but fall short by an inch this time... Remaining WK wrecks the drop pod.

3rd turn deathstar lines up to multi chsrge Wraithguard and serpent. Biker squads come out from hiding turbo boosting up to midfield. I successfully cast Invisibility then try to shriek tue Wraithguard but it's denied. I fire tue bolters into the Wraithguard dropping a couple then charge in and wipe them all out picking up StWL.

Second serpent fails to arrive. Talos are about 18" away from my deathstar... Opponent decides not to go for the assault. Remaining WK picks off one Grey Hunter.

4th turn bikers and deathstar all converge on Talos. Again I successfully cast Invisibility and Perfect Timing. Grav guns followed by the assault finish off the Talos.

Second serpent auto arrives and makes a move across the table for LB (turbo boosting). WK picks off another Grey Hunter.

Fifth turn my opponent concedes after taking out tue Grey Hunters with combined shooting from serpent, Wraithguard and WK.

So I end up winning 8-2. The Wolf Lord and Iron Priest on Thunderwolves did awesome - the S10 was huge versus both the WK and Talos in assault. I'm really digging this list.

Very nice!

My TWC rampages everytime I use them. I run 6 ss/wc with a krakenlord. WCs do tend to be a bit overkill.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dozer, if Khan was used would confer hit and run to twc?

Khan, any White Scar, or anything with Hit & Run will allow the TWC to attempt to hit & run. Mixing bikes in with your cav will lose you fleet, though.

Celestine and priests are a great add for TWC. The priest can give you reroll saves, wounds and hatred.

 pretre wrote:
Celestine and priests are a great add for TWC. The priest can give you reroll saves, wounds and hatred.

Celestine is a beast in there with priests, movement gets trickier though

A wolf lord with reroll saves, hits and wounds is ridiculous too.

I was actually looking towards cypher for my hit and run needs. He retains fleet, has shrouded, and hit and run. Eternal warrior is nice as well

I want to pitch in a vote for power lances

They are really cheap and with a cavalry they produce S6 AP3 rending on the charge.

However Im not sure yet on if I want to have power lance + SS or power lance + BP for the +1 attack and hide behind a wall of fenrisian wolves for a cover save for AP3 and better.

I suggest when you take a TWC with a SS/CCW drop the CCW for a bolt pistol so its SS/BP. That chainsword is not going to do anything for you, the pistol will allow you to shot stuff and if being charge you might kill a couple guys with it. Than pick off the rest. I never take TH, I always take PF, no point have the concussive rule, when most things die from it.

Good call on the BP. I write it on my list and then forget it, but it is important.

Honestly I actually always give them CC weapons just so I dont even have the option of accidentally shooting with them. They dont have relentless and if I accidentally fire a bolter from the techpriest or something and they cant assault its not worth it.

I know it doesnt make any sense but its just to play it safe(fired bolters once when I thought they were relentless.....cost me the game)

It's bolt pistol, so you can still assault.

Although it may be found in the YMTC forum, Iron Priests are only Str9. A lot of the larger tournaments in the States are rolling it this way, including Nova (which is where a lot of my local tournaments look at for rulings).

The +1 str from the puppy is adding after the doubling of strength of the weapon. It's in the BRB, plain and simply. Multiplication before addition. PEMDAS is your friend (unless you're playing SW, )

Hmph. I've never seen that before for Iron Priests.

Yeah, lots of places are ruling that TWC are S10 because they are profile 10, where ICs who purchase upgrades are S4x2+1.

I believe it should be the other way, but hey, TWC are stupid strong for the points. I mean, consider if it was a single model.
For my standard TWC loadout, it would be something like this.

255pt
Cavalry, rending, PF characters when in challenge (which is amazign against MC characters, as the whole unit gets it)
WS5 BS4 I4 T5, W8 +3 save
8 S6 ap3 attacks, shred, +2 on charge
4 S5 attacks +1 on charge
4 S10 ap2 attacks +1 on charge
4 wounds have a ++3 save.
2 bolt pistols

That is about the price of most big nasty MCs, and well under death star cost. Seriously good bang for their buck

IITC and Adepticon both ruled it's S10... Good enough for me.

and nova is reconsidering it right now for str 10