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Oh, I did the same thing with the haywire and glaives on the same squad. That way, they can haywire a vehicle and finish it off with S5 AP2, and the other squad goes hunting for the elusive endangered Terminator or high-AV infantry equivalent.

 Skerr wrote:
My bad, did not realize he was talking vehicles.

Dash I really enjoy reading your posts in detail as you give some great advice.

and if there is one thing I will never forget about your advice it will be to stay away from skyweavers, lol.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
please dont take offense Dash, again I have learned a lot from reading your posts.

I will say it is a bit disheartnening to hear how poorly sky weavers and void weavers are performing and their perception. I have yet to get a game in with my full time, father of 2 and deveoted husband self. One day soon.

Last night I actually considered DE Allies, something I thought I would never do.

Hah, you must have been reading very carefully between the lines to see my mild dislike for skyweavers. I thought I was covering that well....

Also married w/a kid and in gradschool (6 years of factory work was great motivation to go back to college), so I'm not getting a ton of games in either. Fortunately, I've been playing Eldar going on 14 years now and Harlies play style is pretty similar in a lot of ways. Picked up most of my charge shenanigans running a seer council, where overkill was always a concern.

I'm actually not even convinced of my own press concerning skyweavers. I can absolutely see them having a use, and doing ok. But w/them being so freakin expensive I have a hard time pulling the trigger on them, and if I end up getting any they will definitely be last on my list of purchases. To sink a Farseer worth of points into a squad that may/maynot do anything is just too much risk for me, especially when considering those points in allies. A squad of 5 Warp Spiders costs ~ same, has ~ same threat range (after jump and battle focus), better armor, more wounds, higher S shooting, higher volume shooting, and is easier to hide. I was absolutely sold on these guys as a devestating CC squad right up tillI realized they didn't get grenades/flip belts. I was impressed with the high durability haywire platform they provided, until I considered how often you'd not be able to shoot due to jinking. It's just a unit that does nothing particulaly well and even though I can see how it could be used well, I just can't swallow sinking so many points into a unit your opponent can neutralize with little/no effort. They're over costed in a codex full of already expensive units.

The more I read, play and examine the weapons the more I feel that kisses are the worst weapon. Not having to roll to hit and the high volume of the embraces is just so useful. I think we spend too much time worrying about MEQs and not seeing how poorly the kisses preform agains things without power armor. Embraces kill marines just fine but the fact that numbers are the thing that we struggle with. We are elite killers but can so easily get swarmed. I think we are going to be seeing a lot of the khorn dogs in the up and coming months and those guys will just run us over if we don't have a way of dealing with them.

If I'm building a "take all comers" Harlequin list, I wouldn't include any Kisses. Straight up Caresses and Embraces. The Caress feels like the best "all comer" weapon due to just need a high volume of attacks to make effective. The Embrace is also a good all comer weapon, as nearly nothing in the game escapes S6 hammer of wraths, which are extremely effective against most vehicles and can push through a lot of wounds on large squads of basic enemies or even Necrons.

But the Kiss is a very special weapon. It's specifically made to take on multi-wound models, and those just aren't always there. But you also need a high volume of these attacks to reap that benefit, making it still not terribly effective at fighting multi-wound squads (Necron Wraiths), only at fighting single-model units (Wraithknights).

I'm not sure about the Pistols yet. On the one hand, I can use a squad with Fusion Pistols as pseudo-Fire Dragons, especially if I'm allying with Dark Eldar for a Webway Portal. And unlike the Fire Dragons, I have no qualms about charging most units that might come out of a transport. The Neuro-Disruptor Pistols are the real question for me. If I don't have a target for a Fusion Pistol squad, they can still double as a Neuro-Disruptor by having just such a high strength and AP, but the Neuro-Disruptors are locked in for only anti-infantry (but cost substantially less too).

I will never equip a squad with both a special pistol and special weapon. Too many points!

 lambsandlions wrote:
The more I read, play and examine the weapons the more I feel that kisses are the worst weapon. Not having to roll to hit and the high volume of the embraces is just so useful. I think we spend too much time worrying about MEQs and not seeing how poorly the kisses preform agains things without power armor. Embraces kill marines just fine but the fact that numbers are the thing that we struggle with. We are elite killers but can so easily get swarmed. I think we are going to be seeing a lot of the khorn dogs in the up and coming months and those guys will just run us over if we don't have a way of dealing with them.

The issue with embraces isn't if they do more dmg on the charge or not (they do, clearly), but that you might not get them in HoW range. If you find that you never have issues getting into b2b, over-killing targets, or running into highly durable units that require being in combat a second round then go embraces all day.

In a purely Harliquin list, all the weapons fill a role. Fitting out a squad w/each isn't a bad idea to cover your bases. But if you're allying Harlies in, that's where Kisses offer something unique.