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 CrownAxe wrote:

 hiveof_chimera wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Why wouldn't I just use regular psycannons who have rending naturally?

psilencers have force, don't cost twice as much(not sure of this) and have more shots

psilencers can't wound t8

they can however wound t7, and if have misfortune on the wraithknight can wound with rending even if he's t8

 hiveof_chimera wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 hiveof_chimera wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Why wouldn't I just use regular psycannons who have rending naturally?

psilencers have force, don't cost twice as much(not sure of this) and have more shots

psilencers can't wound t8

they can however wound t7, and if have misfortune on the wraithknight can wound with rending even if he's t8

So i have to roll a psychic power to make the pscilencer do anything.

That's not good. What if you don't roll the pertinent power?

Yes, but it involves casting both Misfortune/that biomancy power AND getting Force off.

Not terribly hard, but its two points of failure for you hoping you get some 6s, and only if you used Misfortune will you at least ignore armor saves.

If I figure right for Space Marines, a 21 Grav salute. (20.25 shots).

A full squad of Vanguard Veterans with jump packs, all Grav-slingers (very expensive) gives you 20 shots, add a character for 22 shots.

Just a thought.

 CrownAxe wrote:

 hiveof_chimera wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 hiveof_chimera wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Why wouldn't I just use regular psycannons who have rending naturally?

psilencers have force, don't cost twice as much(not sure of this) and have more shots

psilencers can't wound t8

they can however wound t7, and if have misfortune on the wraithknight can wound with rending even if he's t8

So i have to roll a psychic power to make the pscilencer do anything.

That's not good. What if you don't roll the pertinent power?

I'm not saying they're the go-to choice against WK, I'm just saying maybe to grab one as a second weapon on the DK, or if you're low on points to grab one instead because a single 6 to wound with misfortune means d3 wounds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eadartri wrote:
If I figure right for Space Marines, a 21 Grav salute. (20.25 shots).

A full squad of Vanguard Veterans with jump packs, all Grav-slingers (very expensive) gives you 20 shots, add a character for 22 shots.

Just a thought.

looks pretty cool actually, model all as boba-fett.
how many points are they?

Boba Fett? Why so that can all die embarrassing deaths?

For BA that would be 505 pts.

It will be fairly easy to list most counters, as the number of them dropped dramatically,
(I am considering the WK to come with ranged D weapons, as that is the best loadout.

First of all, psychic counters:
Rending psychic power
Psychic shriek (especially with LD modifiers)
Invisibility + a unit that wants to get close to the WK

SM: Grav weapons.
Eldar: D weapons, other WK, pseudo rending or rending psychic power + scatbikes
D. Eldar: Next to nothing. Some stuff with fleshbane or taloi perhaps, good luck getting them into cc. LD modifiers + psychic allies perhaps.
IG: Nothing. Punisher Pask might do a few wounds. Rending psychic power + IG blob.
Tau: lots of fusion or missilesides + buffmander with MC hunter. Lots of firewarriors + ethereal can hurt it.
SW: TWC will take casualties, but should still go straight over a WK if given the chance.
IK: Nothing. If you can catch the WK in cc then great. But the WK costs less, is more maneuverable, and its ranged D weapons are more dangerous to you than your battlecannon is to it. Even in cc it i no sure thing.
Sisters: Nothing.
tyrannids: Nothing.
Daemons: Be'lakor or Nurgle Iron arm DP with balesword, + a lot of buffs. Grimoire, invis etc will all help even the odds. Daemonettes also remain a great option.
Harlequins: Caresses and kisses all have potential. The fleshbane pistol would work good, but nobody takes it as it's over priced.
Orks: Power Klaws. Getting them there is the problem. Scatbikes will shred a greentide in a few turns. MANZ can still get the job done, particularly bully boyz, but it is very luck dependent.
Khorne daemons: Practically nothing. Lots of fleshhounds with an axe of khorne of PF character maybe?
Skitarii: Radiation guns. The elite choices have a few things that can hurt the WK in cc, but i wouldn't hold my breath over them making it there.
Necrons: Not a lot. Lychguard with shields are one of the few units that will tarpit in a reasonable manner. Might also do a few wounds with an overlord in there. Deathmarks can do a few wounds on the turn they come in.

Ok, I thing that covers most of them.

I've probably missed a few things and some of the more obscure FW choices.

It's best to tarpit it. If you can get past the rest of the codex. Cause investing points in actually killing a WK is a waste of time considering how low it's cost is.

I'd rather focus on the rest of the undercosted overpowered gak first.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Yes, but it involves casting both Misfortune/that biomancy power AND getting Force off.

Not terribly hard, but its two points of failure for you hoping you get some 6s, and only if you used Misfortune will you at least ignore armor saves.

Also GK don't have access to biomancy, so they will need to ally it in.

GW just screwed up here at a monumental level. There is no counter.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
at least not yet.

 FinkleLord wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Yes, but it involves casting both Misfortune/that biomancy power AND getting Force off.

Not terribly hard, but its two points of failure for you hoping you get some 6s, and only if you used Misfortune will you at least ignore armor saves.

Also GK don't have access to biomancy, so they will need to ally it in.

They can get misfortune however, like I said its a situational counter

I played against Eldar yesterday with my Dark Harlies, and while i didn't win i did kill of the Wraith Knight in my alpha strike.I believe i was forcing Psy-Shriek on a -5 through various modifiers, took off 6 wounds and plinked the last few off with Blasters and Splinter Fire.

But then again, should a model that costs under 300pts need my ENTIRE alpha strike just to kill this model?

 koooaei wrote:
It's best to tarpit it.

Before I would have agreed with you.
Now however it is difficult to tarpit. Stomp attacks mean that most viable tarpits get removed quickly, and won't hold for more than a few turns.
They also allow the WK to snipe out important models, like priests and powerfists.

Most armies are simply not capable of tarpitting them effectively anymore.

Some people in other threads have brought up gauss as a method for necrons. Let me just throw out some numbers for various units to show why I disagree, and give people a better understanding of what weapons do and do not work.

Number of shots on target to kill a WK with various weapons (presuming no cover save or other outside effects)
Lascannons: 12
Grav weapons (no re-roll wounds): 12
Krak missiles: 16
Shuriken weapons (or any rending hit needing a 6 to wound): 48
Radium carbine: 72
Guass, poison, pulse rifles (and other weapons needing a 6 to wound without ap3 or better): 144

Some things to note:
1) The listed damage for ap1-3 weapons will in practice be lower than listed, due to cover and invulnerable saves.

2) The listed values are for number of hits. Factoring in BS hit percentages will increase all numbers.

Of the listed weapons the grav and radium carbines strike me as being particularly effective.
3 centurions will still take down a WK a turn, 6 gravguns on bike will do the same thing.
Skitarii need 30 vanguard firing to bring a WK down in 1 turn. That's only 300 points, and does not rely on getting the WK out of cover.

With Nids just tarp it them with endless swarm..

What is the chance that in an eldar army with a WK it won't be under the effect of invisibility?

 Vector Strike wrote:
Tau:

AP4 is enough to deal with Swooping Hawks, Banshees (be sure to run from them or kill them before they charge) and Dire Avengers.

3+ stuff will need either volume of fire or plasma. Warp Spiders will be quite a chore to kill, with their 2d6 jump everytime they get targetted and damaging on Init (!!). I think Missile Pods will deal with them, as even jumping 2d6 will keep them inside MPs' range.
Plasma on Striking Scorpions will need Ignore Cover unless they already fought something.

Guardians die to Fire Warriors (inside a devilfish is enough to ferry them close)

The flyers fall for VTs or Barracudas/Remoras, but they're dangerous.

The Wraithguards will fall for plasma/missile pod/HYMP, but if they catch you...

Wraithknight... I don't have a good answer. Many Sky Rays and/or many Melta Crisis. A Y'vahra could help.

Ion Accelerator Riptide would do well against Warp Spiders. I doubt they can jump outside the range of it, and the models pretty big so could look over LoS terrain.

Buffmander with something that can dish out a lot of shots would do quite well against a WK.

Just shoot the WK. Will you kill it before it blows up it's points in return? Probably not...ranged D son.

 Frozocrone wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:
Tau:

AP4 is enough to deal with Swooping Hawks, Banshees (be sure to run from them or kill them before they charge) and Dire Avengers.

3+ stuff will need either volume of fire or plasma. Warp Spiders will be quite a chore to kill, with their 2d6 jump everytime they get targetted and damaging on Init (!!). I think Missile Pods will deal with them, as even jumping 2d6 will keep them inside MPs' range.
Plasma on Striking Scorpions will need Ignore Cover unless they already fought something.

Guardians die to Fire Warriors (inside a devilfish is enough to ferry them close)

The flyers fall for VTs or Barracudas/Remoras, but they're dangerous.

The Wraithguards will fall for plasma/missile pod/HYMP, but if they catch you...

Wraithknight... I don't have a good answer. Many Sky Rays and/or many Melta Crisis. A Y'vahra could help.

Ion Accelerator Riptide would do well against Warp Spiders. I doubt they can jump outside the range of it, and the models pretty big so could look over LoS terrain.

Buffmander with something that can dish out a lot of shots would do quite well against a WK.

With so easy access to D weaponry, I'm reluctant to bring a Riptide against Eldar. I'm more prone to bring more models to reduce the D impact on me.

Skitarii onagers with that neutron gun?

 hiveof_chimera wrote:

 FinkleLord wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Yes, but it involves casting both Misfortune/that biomancy power AND getting Force off.

Not terribly hard, but its two points of failure for you hoping you get some 6s, and only if you used Misfortune will you at least ignore armor saves.

Also GK don't have access to biomancy, so they will need to ally it in.

They can get misfortune however, like I said its a situational counter

Which means its basically useless.

Any thoughts for pure CSM?

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Any thoughts for pure CSM?

Flip the table and walk away?

No, actually, if you can get there without getting annihilated (a big if), a DP with the Mace should be able to make short work of it. A Juggerlord with the Axe and an escort of Spawn might manage it as well. Again, though, that's assuming you don't just eat a bunch of D shots on the way there.

I do also like the idea of Be'lakor just flying around it shrieking.

Just opened a thread in tactica for that. So far Black mace prince seems to be your best bet :S

 Grey Templar wrote:

 hiveof_chimera wrote:

 FinkleLord wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Yes, but it involves casting both Misfortune/that biomancy power AND getting Force off.

Not terribly hard, but its two points of failure for you hoping you get some 6s, and only if you used Misfortune will you at least ignore armor saves.

Also GK don't have access to biomancy, so they will need to ally it in.

They can get misfortune however, like I said its a situational counter

Which means its basically useless.

Lol not quite, remember it has uses against other MC too.

No counter for Necron, wat?

Wraiths w/ beamers
Vault (<--- Hits harder, hits further, hits bigger, can be repaired, natural iWND on top)
Burning One Enclave
Pylon

Given, 2/4 are pretty much Apoc-level (But hey, Wraithknight.) but the other two work pretty well. BOC has a chance in melee due to Fleshbane but that initial shooting face has a good chance to be gruesome, and Wraiths with Beamers need two six's or one six and a bit of luck.

Or just mass Warriors and Ghost Arks.

For Necrons the Canoptek harvest would be fine, just make sure the scarabs get into combat with the knight and then just tarpit it.

Opponent will most likely just focus on the wraiths.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Sisters : change army; change game; change company editing the game just to be sure.

Under the current Codex? Toss the Exorcists at it and pray they don't die before it's dead.

(That or get Dominions up in its face with meltaguns and pray they don't die before it's dead)

Mostly this.

3 Exos and 3 Doms. 10.5 Exo shots, 12 Dom shots. 15 Hits. 7.5 Wounds. 5 After FNP. I assume you can throw something else to get that last wound (are they six now?)

oz of the north wrote:
For Necrons the Canoptek harvest would be fine, just make sure the scarabs get into combat with the knight and then just tarpit it.

Opponent will most likely just focus on the wraiths.

Stomp, plus isn't it Jump?
It'll just blast the Spyder on the way in.
I mean with their Invul saves they're resilient enough, by why bother with the Scarbas or Spyder if the D-weapon ignores reanimation anyway? Just put in more wraiths with more beamers - depending on how much of the rest of his army you expect to focus on your guys.

 pretre wrote:
Mostly this.

3 Exos and 3 Doms. 10.5 Exo shots, 12 Dom shots. 15 Hits. 7.5 Wounds. 5 After FNP. I assume you can throw something else to get that last wound (are they six now?)

So use everything in the army to kill one model. Seems about right. Especially given how the 3 dominions are least are not going to be shooting first turn, and likely will die after the turn they shoot.

Best counter to a wraithknight is a wraithknight. That's how Eldar do it, anyways.