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SGTPozy wrote:
The only hard counter that I can think of to the Wraithknight comes from Space Marines and Grey Knights; Grav Centurion combo.

Against bikes? Probably the Sicarian Battle Tank due to being fast.

In a vaccum sure. that would kill 1 wraithknight and then cry as the 2nd one stomps it to death. and the sicarian battle tank can take on bikers but can't take on the wraithknight. the problem with posting direct counters is that it has to be able to deal with its intended target without getting killed prior.

 Xerics wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
The only hard counter that I can think of to the Wraithknight comes from Space Marines and Grey Knights; Grav Centurion combo.

Against bikes? Probably the Sicarian Battle Tank due to being fast.

In a vaccum sure. that would kill 1 wraithknight and then cry as the 2nd one stomps it to death. and the sicarian battle tank can take on bikers but can't take on the wraithknight. the problem with posting direct counters is that it has to be able to deal with its intended target without getting killed prior.

Is wraith knight not a LOW now? Unless playing unbound which 90% do not and is not legal in a tourney setting, only one can be brought. So that one does die and that's that

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
The only hard counter that I can think of to the Wraithknight comes from Space Marines and Grey Knights; Grav Centurion combo.

Against bikes? Probably the Sicarian Battle Tank due to being fast.

In a vaccum sure. that would kill 1 wraithknight and then cry as the 2nd one stomps it to death. and the sicarian battle tank can take on bikers but can't take on the wraithknight. the problem with posting direct counters is that it has to be able to deal with its intended target without getting killed prior.

Is wraith knight not a LOW now? Unless playing unbound which 90% do not and is not legal in a tourney setting, only one can be brought. So that one does die and that's that

Craftworld Warhost Formation. I cant take up to 12 if the points go high enough in a single detachment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I ran 4 in an 1850 List.

 Xerics wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
The only hard counter that I can think of to the Wraithknight comes from Space Marines and Grey Knights; Grav Centurion combo.

Against bikes? Probably the Sicarian Battle Tank due to being fast.

In a vaccum sure. that would kill 1 wraithknight and then cry as the 2nd one stomps it to death. and the sicarian battle tank can take on bikers but can't take on the wraithknight. the problem with posting direct counters is that it has to be able to deal with its intended target without getting killed prior.

Is wraith knight not a LOW now? Unless playing unbound which 90% do not and is not legal in a tourney setting, only one can be brought. So that one does die and that's that

Craftworld Warhost Formation. I cant take up to 12 if the points go high enough in a single detachment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I ran 4 in an 1850 List.

Ah, that guy status. Roger

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
The only hard counter that I can think of to the Wraithknight comes from Space Marines and Grey Knights; Grav Centurion combo.

Against bikes? Probably the Sicarian Battle Tank due to being fast.

In a vaccum sure. that would kill 1 wraithknight and then cry as the 2nd one stomps it to death. and the sicarian battle tank can take on bikers but can't take on the wraithknight. the problem with posting direct counters is that it has to be able to deal with its intended target without getting killed prior.

Is wraith knight not a LOW now? Unless playing unbound which 90% do not and is not legal in a tourney setting, only one can be brought. So that one does die and that's that

Craftworld Warhost Formation. I cant take up to 12 if the points go high enough in a single detachment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I ran 4 in an 1850 List.

Ah, that guy status. Roger

Lol yeah I took 4 to an 1850 point tournament. Why would you not take your most optimized list to a tournament?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
and I had to fight against 2 armies that were nothing but Imperial Knights... Sooooo you can take your "That Guy Status" and spout it to someone who cares.

Lol, ok keyboard warrior, calm down.. I didn't mean to insult your eldar pride

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Lol, ok keyboard warrior, calm down.. I didn't mean to insult your eldar pride

Lol I am not doing the keyboard warrior at all. I am telling you like it is. The honest truth. The brass tax. I have had 4 wraithknights for over a year now and been playing Eldar since 2007. That guy status would be someone who just started playing Eldar because of the new codex and then dropped 4 wraithknights that he bought as soon as the new wraithknight rules were released.

Please keep in mind, Rule Number One on this site is Be Polite. Thanks.

Getting back on topic, as a fellow tau player who has had three games against the new codex, there isn't a lot that can be done. Any map that has has some type of los blocking terrain is an instant buff to the eldar bikers. As others have pointed out, our best counters or only counters to the wraithknight come in the form of skyrays and riptides for the most part, and it becomes incredibly cost inefficient when compared to one knight. Since bringing riptides against one is basically wasted points, the only other option I've thought of trying is to spam msu( that will get eaten alive by bikers and the other incredibly reliable units in the new codex). Broadsides are too expensive and inefficient, and get wrecked by bikes.

If they gimp themselves, it can be a fair fight, but a competent player with a semi-optimized list will eat the tau alive.

 Xerics wrote:
and I had to fight against 2 armies that were nothing but Imperial Knights... Sooooo you can take your "That Guy Status" and spout it to someone who cares.

Just because someone else is 'that guy' status too doesn't make you not 'that guy' status.

Back to the topic. No. Tau get rolled by Eldar, and that was in their old book. Wraithknights are just not feasible to take down, and the point that the Riptide is now a liability is completely true. The most efficient way to down a WK is a Farsight bomb, and that costs 700+ points and you must take dual melta on every suit in the ball or it just wont kill the WK. So even if you have a Farsight bomb and drop in and kill the WK, that ball WILL get shot off the table, either by D-Scythes or scatbikes.

reading the OP bikes have SD weapons?

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
reading the OP bikes have SD weapons?

It might be just the heavies, but I'm pretty sure Eldar bikes get the D

I wouldn't have cared if it was just d weapons or just bikes/spiders, but the two in tandem make it hard to play against either.

A forge world AM list with artillery and mass platoons + conscripts MIGHT work but you'd lose to a lot of other lists

 jreilly89 wrote:

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
reading the OP bikes have SD weapons?

It might be just the heavies, but I'm pretty sure Eldar bikes get the D

Just to clarify, full SD only on wrathknight (2*1 shot 36''), wraithguard with cannons (1 shot each 12''), SD with a -1 (so no insta death 6) on wraithguard with scythes (template) and hemlock fighter (2*small blast, cant recall the range).

Bikes can have stock (S4, AP5, 2 shot twin linked), a cannon (S6, 3 shot, 24'', bladestorm) or a scatter (S6 AP6, 4 shot, 36'')

As an eldar player I field 1 knight only and stock bikes only.

Like several people have been stating already, no, Tau is not a great counter to Eldar, and certainly no hard counter.

Tau's biggest strength is an alpha strike that consists of considerable long range, high strength shooting. Their weakness is limited mobility and low durability. Eldar are mobile and have decent range. This is an immense problem for Tau since if they do not get to go first, instead of getting their alpha strike off, they get alpha striked. Since Eldar shoots pretty much as hard as Tau, and likely can get most of their things in range turn 1, a lot of important Tau units will be gone. Marker lights and Broadsides will bite the dust first, perhaps even a Riptide, but those will likely stick around until the Wraithknights close in.

Line of sight blocking terrain is going to hurt the Tau player, who cannot move his Broadsides or Pathfinders around without getting punished for it in the shooting face, while the Eldar can simply move around it. The Eldar codex is almost like a slap in the face to the Tau. Immensely mobile Eldar lists match or outperform the shooting of the most immobile Tau gunline lists. Suit heavy and thereby rather mobile Tau lists get even more severely outgunned in addition to being less durable.

I think that one of the better counters to the new Eldar might be Imperial Knighs, or whatever that can gun down the Wraithknights at range and then proceed to obliterate whatever else that might threaten them, such as smaller wraith units and then just mow down the jetbikes. I still do not think a list of just knights would crush an optimized Eldar list, but it might have a better shot at competing than most things in the game.

It makes one wonder what will happend when Tau get their new codex, either they will get shooting out of this world to make up for their disadvantages or they will get knocked down yet a few more pegs, especially if the most complained about units, Broadsides and Riptides, receive nerfs.

 Mulletdude wrote:

 Xerics wrote:
and I had to fight against 2 armies that were nothing but Imperial Knights... Sooooo you can take your "That Guy Status" and spout it to someone who cares.

Just because someone else is 'that guy' status too doesn't make you not 'that guy' status.

Back to the topic.

Telling people to get back on topic is often more effective if you don't try to get in one last swing before declaring the argument over.

Eldar do not need Wraithknight to deal with Riptides.

Warp Spiders will inflict on average 12 wounds on a Riptide with the possibility of AP2 on a 6. After the saves and all it is still an average of 4 wounds that make it through.

Swooping Hawks will make short work of Pathfinders an their Markerlights. Pathfinders have no armor or cover saves versus the grenade pack.

Yes the Wraithknight is strong but it is not always the only or the cheapest way to get the job done.

Tau are not a hard counter to eldar. Only another Eldar player can hard counter Eldar currently.

That being said, I think drop pod armies, Full-on Necron airforce, and Farsight Enclaves loaded with fusion blasters/plasma rifles and plenty of markerlights can have a chance especially if Maelstrom is being used.

Tau can drop a Wraithknight with a combination of Skyrays and Fusion Blaster suits (add in markerlights for better success). Yes, that is a disproportionate amount of points to take down 1 model, but it can be done in 1 turn. The major downside here is it also really depends on if Tau get the first turn and are allowed to shoot first otherwise a few units of jetbikes can easily remove suits and non-skyray markerlights from the table.

 D6Damager wrote:
Tau are not a hard counter to eldar. Only another Eldar player can hard counter Eldar currently.

That being said, I think drop pod armies, Full-on Necron airforce, and Farsight Enclaves loaded with fusion blasters/plasma rifles and plenty of markerlights can have a chance especially if Maelstrom is being used.

Tau can drop a Wraithknight with a combination of Skyrays and Fusion Blaster suits (add in markerlights for better success). Yes, that is a disproportionate amount of points to take down 1 model, but it can be done in 1 turn. The major downside here is it also really depends on if Tau get the first turn and are allowed to shoot first otherwise a few units of jetbikes can easily remove suits and non-skyray markerlights from the table.

Also relies on Eldar player on taking 1 wraithknight. Even in Maelstrom missions I have smashed MSU armies, mostly because its hard to shift a wraithknight off an objective in the first place.

 D6Damager wrote:
Tau are not a hard counter to eldar. Only another Eldar player can hard counter Eldar currently.

That being said, I think drop pod armies, Full-on Necron airforce, and Farsight Enclaves loaded with fusion blasters/plasma rifles and plenty of markerlights can have a chance especially if Maelstrom is being used.

Tau can drop a Wraithknight with a combination of Skyrays and Fusion Blaster suits (add in markerlights for better success). Yes, that is a disproportionate amount of points to take down 1 model, but it can be done in 1 turn. The major downside here is it also really depends on if Tau get the first turn and are allowed to shoot first otherwise a few units of jetbikes can easily remove suits and non-skyray markerlights from the table.

Disagree, Three SkyRays does not kill a Wraithknight in one turn, and they have to blow their load to do it, and to have a chance they also need a second source of markerlights, and Tau needs 1st Turn. And hope there is only one Wraithknight.

Fusoin Drops just don't do it either, dropping three fusion suits supported by markerlights is 6*.8333*.5*.666 is only 1.66 Wounds after FNP and requires 2 Markerlights on a 159pt unit. Which means it would take 575pts of Dual Fusion Suits to DS in in a single turn and take 8 Markerlights, 16 if cover, to take down a Wraithkngith. That is not good. The only hope to counter a single Wriathknight is Triple Skyrays, and that would shoehorn Tau into a very singular army build, and Riptides become a liability. Hell, there is a 1/5 chance that a Wraithknight will take out my 265pt ECPA FNP Riptide in one turn with nothing I can do about it, that is just unacceptable. Before I had 4+ Fuins Cover or my 5++ to lessen the chances of ID by 50-100%. Not to mention the D3 Wounds and Ignoring FNP.

Tau do not have a cost effective answer for the Wraithknight, Grav Cents, or Eldar D are about the only things out there that are and are readily available. And as all of those things are quite overpowering it puts the Wraithknight in perspective.