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Arghhh! Sisters complaining that their armys little more than a pale imitation of the SMs....because they are! Their entire existance is based on a legal loophole, not any actual combat superiority. And just let a BA player (me) let you know the value of a 30 point melee weapon on a single attack model moving at initiative 1: that & a nickel will get you a steaming hot cup of jack shart.

The Adeptus Astartes wealth is based on ancient oaths of protection with the citizens of the IoM & the Mechanicum. The ecclisiarchy's wealth is based on lies, theft, taxes and papal indulgences. And if there so rich cant the men that run the ecclisiarchy get those nuns a land raider variant? Maybe some cuter shoes? Also arnt the Sisters sworn to poverty?

::waits silently::

I love these little calms before the storm.

 GoonBandito wrote:

 Red Marine wrote:
Since when were eviscerators a Sisters only thing? There more common amongst underhive street gangs & IG priests.

Eviscerators are a signature weapon of the Ecclesiarchy (though certainly not exclusive), of which the Sororitas are the main fighting force. My point is that Space Marines already have enough cool exclusive toys - why can't the other power armour armies get more unique stuff?

If they ever get an update they probably will.

 Red Marine wrote:
Arghhh! Sisters complaining that their armys little more than a pale imitation of the SMs....because they are! Their entire existance is based on a legal loophole, not any actual combat superiority. […]The Adeptus Astartes wealth is based on ancient oaths of protection with the citizens of the IoM & the Mechanicum. The ecclisiarchy's wealth is based on lies, theft, taxes and papal indulgences.

I am sorry, I cannot hear you over the sound of having two or more members among the High Lords of Terra. That is some responsibility silly little space vampires will never be able to experience, though, so I cannot expect you to understand .

Whoa girrrrrlfriend! You trying to argue opulence and bling with the Sons of Sanguinius? Talk to my gold plated gauntlets.

As Will Smith once said;

"You know the difference between you and me? I make this look good."

 Red Marine wrote:
Whoa girrrrrlfriend! You trying to argue opulence and bling with the Sons of Sanguinius? Talk to my gold plated gauntlets.

Ahem...

 j31c3n wrote:
{good stuff}

I love it when j31c3n enters a thread, drops a bomb, drops the mic and leaves.

This just in, but Eviscerators cost 25 pts, replace both the chainsword and bolt pistol, and are 1 per 5 marines.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
This just in, but Eviscerators cost 25 pts, replace both the chainsword and bolt pistol, and are 1 per 5 marines.

Number of people that have played the game before that will be using the eviscerator part: 0.

Looks like it's mainly gonna be the painters and newbies that glues an eviscerator onto one of the 5 dear models in the box. Because it does look awesome.

You can also use it for a custom Gabriel Seth

No reason not to use the Eviscerator part as a regular chainsword.

 Talys wrote:
You can also use it for a custom Gabriel Seth

Damn you beat me to it

 Red Marine wrote:
Whoa girrrrrlfriend! You trying to argue opulence and bling with the Sons of Sanguinius? Talk to my gold plated gauntlets.

You do realize that there is more gold in my toilet paper rolls than in this gauntlet, right?
Gold-plated, this is cute !

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
This just in, but Eviscerators cost 25 pts, replace both the chainsword and bolt pistol, and are 1 per 5 marines.

Sure, less expansive than the sisters one because, well, marines are S4 instead of 3 and WS4 instead of 3, so they deserve to have it cheaper! Because reasons!

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Sure, less expansive than the sisters one because, well, marines are S4 instead of 3 and WS4 instead of 3, so they deserve to have it cheaper! Because reasons!

Well they do also have considerably better chances of surviving to get into combat since they, unlike the sisters, have armour on.
... wait, that's not a bad thing.

 Purifier wrote:
Well they do also have considerably better chances of surviving to get into combat since they, unlike the sisters, have armour on.
... wait, that's not a bad thing.

I was not comparing it to repentia because thanksfully repentia do not pay 30 points for their eviscerator. That would be… bad. I mean, worse than now.

I think we can all agree Sisters get the shaft.

It's a lot of points for two attacks on the charge, but hidden powerfist. I wouldn't write it off, but it probably won't be too huge meta-wise. ASM will still be bullies, not front rank sluggers.

I really liked the rest of the rules leak for ASM. Mostly unchanged, but a little cleaned up. And the Eviscerstor option might not be amazing, but more optionsnis good...

 Red Marine wrote:
Whoa girrrrrlfriend! You trying to argue opulence and bling with the Sons of Sanguinius? Talk to my gold plated gauntlets.

and the nipple armour...

Rumbleguts wrote:

kburn wrote:
All I want is dreadnoughts to be gargangutan creatues with Str D weaponary everywhere and bolters to have the profile of scatter lasers. Eldar is probably the least suitable army to use as an example to beg for something more.

That said, I'm not too happy they have them either. Its like they're spreading the unique weapons of other factions around. Eldar even got gargangutan creature and Str D from forgeworld, so its not something new in this case.

But what I really want is for eldar to be banned from all competitive play, because it blows my mind that they are incessantly whinging despite getting an extremely overpowered codex.

I wonder if the older, more moderate codices (Dark Angels, Tyranids, Orcs, etc) had been released to what might be the new power level that seems to have started with Necrons, if people would be so upset with Eldar? I can understand a lot of anger at an already strong codex getting a near across the board increase while older, far less strong codices are still waiting. On the other hand, a few of the changes seem like they would be overpowered unless those other codices receive an enormous bump.

Uh, no. For a year or so, GW was basically saying " okay look guys I know this fun stuff tends to imbalance the game so were all just gonna have to make sacrifices okay?" And everyone grumbled but we took our lumps and lost our cool fluffy rules and the game was more balanced and fun as a result.

Then, two historically already top-tier armies come out and they go "oops the quarterlies are in and we seriously need some revenue so THESE TWO ARMIES ARE ON STEROIDS GO NUTS just don't forget to buy lots of models!"

 j31c3n wrote:
> compare new SM units and weapons to supposed lack of new CSM units and weapons
> conveniently forget about khorne lord of skulls, heldrake, forgefiend, maulerfiend, defilier, helbrute, obliterators, mutilators, warp talons, warpsmiths, dark apostles, the new cypher rules and dataslate, and probably some other stuff as well

I know Chaos doesn't receive NEARLY as much love as the Loyalists, but this kind of complaining makes it seem like Chaos and not the Soriitas are the most neglected Codex faction. Yeah, I wanna see Chaos Legion Tactics and CSM with graviton weapons too. But this kind of nonsense isn't helping.

If you'd bothered to read, I'd specifically said that Chaos hasn't had any new squad toys, as in, wargear options in the armoury. Yes, we've had a bunch of 'new' units, most of which though have been kept to very large vehicles, or else have been just massively gimped versions of their Loyalist counterparts... (*cough*Dark Apostle can't even take a jump pack or bike? WTF is with that?!)

What Chaos players are generally crying for right now however, are some options beyond the same 3 special weapons, 4 heavy weapons, and the same old batch of combi's/plasma pistol/power toy/fist/lightning claw that we've been using for over 16 years now!
Meanwhile, Loyalists keep getting all kinds of shiny new toys to deck our their squads & characters with.

I couldn't care less if Eviscerators are crap on 1W/1A models, or if a shiny new 'chaos gun' equivalent to the grav gun costs 3x as much because... "Chaos Tax' or some other BS. Right now, I just some options because I'm bored gakkless when putting together squads that haven't changed 1 single bit since bloody forever!
Where are the Chaos Heavy Flamers & Hand Flamers? Surely the Dark Mechanicus have sold a 'not grav' grav-type gun of some sort to the Legions in exchange for various 'favours.' Why can't we at least have Havocs with a really destructive, but highly dangerous to use weapon that's a fusion of technology & warp magicks?

And most heinous of all, why the can't Chaos Marines dual wield Plasma Pistols like Loyalists can?!! I don't care if it's a waste of 30pts and almost certain to kill the marine in question, but for some outrageously stupid reason, Chaos Marines have no real ability to make use of the visually cool Gunslingers rule.

 Purifier wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
This just in, but Eviscerators cost 25 pts, replace both the chainsword and bolt pistol, and are 1 per 5 marines.

Number of people that have played the game before that will be using the eviscerator part: 0.

Looks like it's mainly gonna be the painters and newbies that glues an eviscerator onto one of the 5 dear models in the box. Because it does look awesome.

On a 1A model, it’s not worth the points. On a vet sarge, maybe (assuming it’s on the melee weapon list). But only if I plan on having a HQ attached to the squad so he can’t just be picked out. On captains or other characters? It’s not a horrible option.

The bit will find use, just probably not the 1 in 5 guys option for assault marines.

New rule leaks for assault marines shows that they got nerfed. Lost drop pods as a transport, and nothing else has changed, and they were bad before... Looks like GW really wants to keep necrons and the elves as special snowflakes for people who cannot think tactically. Not surprised at all.

Experiment 626 wrote:
What Chaos players are generally crying for right now however, are some options beyond the same 3 special weapons, 4 heavy weapons, and the same old batch of combi's/plasma pistol/power toy/fist/lightning claw that we've been using for over 16 years now!

Still more than what we get. Just 3 special and three heavy, and one of the special is a goddamn stormbolter!

Experiment 626 wrote:
*cough*Dark Apostle can't even take a jump pack or bike? WTF is with that?!

Do you want to talk about how the only generic HQ available to Sisters cannot take a jump pack or biker either, and do not even have access to any 2+ save?

Experiment 626 wrote:
And most heinous of all, why the can't Chaos Marines dual wield Plasma Pistols like Loyalists can?!! I don't care if it's a waste of 30pts and almost certain to kill the marine in question, but for some outrageously stupid reason, Chaos Marines have no real ability to make use of the visually cool Gunslingers rule.

Well, it is true that here, we pwn you bad with a whole unit of super-cool gunslinging jump-packing harassers!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

kburn wrote:
New rule leaks for assault marines shows that they got nerfed. Lost drop pods as a transport, and nothing else has changed, and they were bad before... Looks like GW really wants to keep necrons and the elves as special snowflakes for people who cannot think tactically. Not surprised at all.

You just forgot to account for the bazillions of special rules and buff they will get from Chapter Tactics, Decurion non-sense and all that.

kburn wrote:
New rule leaks for assault marines shows that they got nerfed. Lost drop pods as a transport, and nothing else has changed, and they were bad before... Looks like GW really wants to keep necrons and the elves as special snowflakes for people who cannot think tactically. Not surprised at all.

If pods are moved to fast attack slot instead of dedicated transport (which seems to be what they are doing lately) you haven't lost pods, the rest of the army has just gained it where it wasn't.

 Purifier wrote:

kburn wrote:
New rule leaks for assault marines shows that they got nerfed. Lost drop pods as a transport, and nothing else has changed, and they were bad before... Looks like GW really wants to keep necrons and the elves as special snowflakes for people who cannot think tactically. Not surprised at all.

If pods are moved to fast attack slot instead of dedicated transport (which seems to be what they are doing lately) you haven't lost pods, the rest of the army has just gained it where it wasn't.

doubt elves and necrons are the standard for what will happen to other codexes. seems like those 2 are special snowflakes for the tactically challenged. sergeants are still 1 wound, unlike elf officers who are 2 wound.

 Purifier wrote:

kburn wrote:
New rule leaks for assault marines shows that they got nerfed. Lost drop pods as a transport, and nothing else has changed, and they were bad before... Looks like GW really wants to keep necrons and the elves as special snowflakes for people who cannot think tactically. Not surprised at all.

If pods are moved to fast attack slot instead of dedicated transport (which seems to be what they are doing lately) you haven't lost pods, the rest of the army has just gained it where it wasn't.

They didn’t loose access to them, but they lost the free swap. AM are now 14ppm, with the option to buy JPs for 3. So basically the same as before. If they don’t take the packs, they can grab a rhino/razor/DP as a DT. As you are now paying full price, it’s no longer quite as cost efficient to drop AMs to help boot your pod count.

kburn wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

kburn wrote:
New rule leaks for assault marines shows that they got nerfed. Lost drop pods as a transport, and nothing else has changed, and they were bad before... Looks like GW really wants to keep necrons and the elves as special snowflakes for people who cannot think tactically. Not surprised at all.

If pods are moved to fast attack slot instead of dedicated transport (which seems to be what they are doing lately) you haven't lost pods, the rest of the army has just gained it where it wasn't.

doubt elves and necrons are the standard for what will happen to other codexes. seems like those 2 are special snowflakes for the tactically challenged. sergeants are still 1 wound, unlike elf officers who are 2 wound.

Uhm, BA got FA drop pods. SW have them too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nevelon wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

kburn wrote:
New rule leaks for assault marines shows that they got nerfed. Lost drop pods as a transport, and nothing else has changed, and they were bad before... Looks like GW really wants to keep necrons and the elves as special snowflakes for people who cannot think tactically. Not surprised at all.

If pods are moved to fast attack slot instead of dedicated transport (which seems to be what they are doing lately) you haven't lost pods, the rest of the army has just gained it where it wasn't.

They didn’t loose access to them, but they lost the free swap. AM are now 14ppm, with the option to buy JPs for 3. So basically the same as before. If they don’t take the packs, they can grab a rhino/razor/DP as a DT. As you are now paying full price, it’s no longer quite as cost efficient to drop AMs to help boot your pod count.

I'm not sure how they used to work, but if I understand you, they went down by 3 points per model, but now have to pay for their transport? So a drop pod for 10 went up from 30 to 35 points? Basically you're angry that you can't spam pods with 5 in it at a cost of 15 points per pod. Am I getting the jist right?

 j31c3n wrote:
> compare new SM units and weapons to supposed lack of new CSM units and weapons
> conveniently forget about khorne lord of skulls, heldrake, forgefiend, maulerfiend, defilier, helbrute, obliterators, mutilators, warp talons, warpsmiths, dark apostles, the new cypher rules and dataslate, and probably some other stuff as well

I know Chaos doesn't receive NEARLY as much love as the Loyalists, but this kind of complaining makes it seem like Chaos and not the Soriitas are the most neglected Codex faction. Yeah, I wanna see Chaos Legion Tactics and CSM with graviton weapons too. But this kind of nonsense isn't helping.

>completely ignoring that heldrake, Forgefiend, and Maulerfiend were covered in the preceding post
>pretending deffy and warp Talons are worth their points
>meme arrows on dakka

lustigjh wrote:

 j31c3n wrote:
> compare new SM units and weapons to supposed lack of new CSM units and weapons
> conveniently forget about khorne lord of skulls, heldrake, forgefiend, maulerfiend, defilier, helbrute, obliterators, mutilators, warp talons, warpsmiths, dark apostles, the new cypher rules and dataslate, and probably some other stuff as well

I know Chaos doesn't receive NEARLY as much love as the Loyalists, but this kind of complaining makes it seem like Chaos and not the Soriitas are the most neglected Codex faction. Yeah, I wanna see Chaos Legion Tactics and CSM with graviton weapons too. But this kind of nonsense isn't helping.

>completely ignoring that heldrake, Forgefiend, and Maulerfiend were covered in the preceding post
>pretending deffy and warp Talons are worth their points
>meme arrows on dakka

"covered"

They were covered in-so-much as saying "look at all the things loyalists get and I don't care if it's useless, but chaos-things don't count because they're useless."
Classy.

Plus "one of which gets you classed as a TFG just by taking it." What utter rubbish. But I've come to expect whiny posts from Experiment. It's basically all he posts. And he has a lot of posts.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 DanielBeaver wrote:
Gabriel Seth's weapon only looks like an eviserator. It has very different stats than an eviserator.

Against most targets it behaves exactly like a PF. It's only going to be a game changer if ASM gain a "hidden fist" option instead of it just being an option for the sgt.

...unless what they're actually getting is a heavy chainsword, which does strike at initiative. If ASM get that as a squad-wide option, it would be pretty nice.

I wouldn't call hidden Eviscerators on 1A models stellar by any means... odds are they're also likely to be 20-25pts a pop, similar to the cost of Power Fists which are also a Str.x2/ap2 weapon.

What's really most galling is that, yet again, Loyalists are getting new squad toys, and yet, Chaos Marines have received exactly 0 'new' squad toys over the past 16+ years!
Seriously, since 3rd edition dropped in '98, we've had Loyalists across their various forms gain, or else see the return of;
- Grav Pistol
- Grav Gun
- Grav Cannon
- Hand Flamer
- Heavy Flamer
- Inferno Pistol
- Frost Cannon
- Eviscerator
- Relic Blade

Chaos Marines on the other hand have only lost weapons along the way, nor have we seen any new variants on our basic vehicles. Meanwhile, Loyalists have now received 3!! new (non-FW) Land Raider varients, a new Command Rhino, and more weapon options for the Razorback... oh, and Drop Pods, while we're still stuck with FW-limited Dreadclaws which a number of areas won't allow, because... "Reasons"
What have we gotten instead? Oh yeah, 4 'new' Daemon engines, one of which is utter crap, one of which gets you automatically labeled as a TFG, and two that are all but impossible to gain cover saves with!


But chaos marines have the dreaded reaper autocannon on their terminators!

Eldar can go cry a river over a lack of ap2 on their IC's. At least you guys have toys to choose from! Even Sisters have gotten more new unit toys than we have!

kburn wrote:
sergeants are still 1 wound, unlike elf officers who are 2 wound.

Someone is in anguish .