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 pumpinchimp wrote:
Admittedly I'm a fairly new player, I've only got about 8 games under my belt but I'm yet to win.

Last night I played a guy with a cool looking Imperial Fist army (I'm Tau). We managed to fit in two games. The first, I got tabled in turn 3 and only managed to inflict a single wound on a Centurion. The second game (after my opponent totally gimped his army) started better but quickly went downhill and I got tabled again (managed to last until turn 4 this time).

Think I need new dice!

The star of his army was a Deimos Vindicator Laser Destroyer, which has put me right off Forgeworld models.

I feel your pain man. When I started I was tabled a few times, and didn't win any games for a long time. I had to start thinking about objectives to win, and eventually had to get some different models than the ones I started with. It takes time to learn the units and what they're truly good at/for, and you can often do okay with a cool army, you just sometimes need a couple units that are more able to produce results. IMO, the best way to go in is knowing that you'll be learning how to play for awhile (think playing an RTS like Starcraft against people who've been playing awhile, it just takes time to get better at it), and go in knowing you'll have to tweak your army later on. Just know it takes time, and takes time to figure out whats actually good in the army. I would say though that firewarriors are never meant to charge, you actually really want to keep them out of close combat.

Lastly, it sounds like the person you were playing with is a good guy, and I would ask him for tips. I'd also ask if it was okay to proxy things to test new builds.

Play Lower points then that. Try like 1000 or even 750

IT cuts down on a lot of shenanigans bar Imperial knights.

At least with reasonable people.

IT also lets you focus on specific units and how they work so you can get better at it. instead of being inundated with a ton of information all at once.

When I started, it was the Heldrake I hated. No matter what I did, it ate at least one squad a turn. I couldn't scratch it. Storm Talon, Quadgun, nothing mattered. Fortunately, of the two who fielded it, one was an awesome guy who fielded what he liked, so the rest of his army wasn't a big problem, and the other, while he was a TFG, was also bad at the game.

It gets better. Even if you play that guy regularly, I'm sure he'll swap out the most-hated model.

One thing we've done a lot of is team games. Bring 500pts as an ally to someone else who brings 1000, and play against someone with 1500? Or 1k each player in a 2v2? Really evens things out it seems.

(My Tau is in a similar place as you, at about 1500 total, but is more infantry/tanks, less Suits. More a SM or Eldar player.)

I'm struggling to figure out exactly why you're having such trouble with the Vindicator Destroyer. It has decentish shooting but not mobility and it's not that hard to kill with deep striking fusion suits and as long as you're using cover properly it doesn't look like something that would do a lot of damage to your list. Make sure everything is claiming a cover save wherever possible (your infantry should pretty much always be in terrain or in reserve unless you're making a game-winning objective grab and the Riptide should be making use of his shield gen against powerful shooting) and try to use LoS blocking terrain to limit alpha-strike damage if you have to go second. If you don't have any LoS blocking terrain you really should get some, without it the game is more about who can inflict the most devastating first turn hammerblow than tactical manoeuvre.

Don't be afraid to use reserves. There's nothing wrong with sticking a unit of Fire Warriors in reserve and walking them on to claim objectives once you've had a chance to take out some of the opponent's big guns.

Lord Corellia wrote:
Did you at least have fun in any of the games?

Hell yeah, I'm having loads of fun! As I said, I'm more amused than anything by how badly I'm getting beaten. It was hilarious charging something with 2 gun drones (I didn't mention it but I also assaulted a dreadnough with 3 pathfinders without realising they couldn't hurt it at all!)

I'm sure I'll improve given time.

 pumpinchimp wrote:
Admittedly I'm a fairly new player, I've only got about 8 games under my belt but I'm yet to win.

Last night I played a guy with a cool looking Imperial Fist army (I'm Tau). We managed to fit in two games. The first, I got tabled in turn 3 and only managed to inflict a single wound on a Centurion. The second game (after my opponent totally gimped his army) started better but quickly went downhill and I got tabled again (managed to last until turn 4 this time).

Think I need new dice!

The star of his army was a Deimos Vindicator Laser Destroyer, which has put me right off Forgeworld models.

Yeah I can imagine the VLD helped a lot to kill your Tau lol. That thing is nasty looking at the rules just now! I happen to have one on order and can't wait to murder some Tyranids/Chaos scum with it!


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 Desubot wrote:
Play Lower points then that. Try like 1000 or even 750

IT cuts down on a lot of shenanigans bar Imperial knights.

At least with reasonable people.

IT also lets you focus on specific units and how they work so you can get better at it. instead of being inundated with a ton of information all at once.

Agreed. For new starter games you're better off with small armies so you can get your head around things more easily.

 tenebre wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:

 tenebre wrote:

 pumpinchimp wrote:
This is my army - http://hq-builder.com/shared/106308

I built it based on the models I liked rather that ones that would win games and, other than a single Piranha, it's every model I've got. I know roughly what to do to make it better (basically go Farsight Enclave and get an ethereal).

Also, I'm determined to get everything painted before I buy anything new.

so as i tell everyone who comes to my group with the same complaint...

1. dont play 1500. 3k before the game balances. These are not Apocalypse games at all. but most armies have between 7-10 units/vehicles. nids have 9-12 though
2. always play objective (maelstrom)
3. Play with more terrain (see my 40k batreps for an example)

the game has no balance at low points. Basically one bad turn and you literally have no way to recover. there is no chance for give and take or sacrificial units. Also certain armies have a distinct advantage at that points. With something like a laser destroyer at low poits it an focus on your highest value target in turn 1 and eliminate. We had one in a game a few weeks back but it had to choose and could only blow up 1 HVT before the enemy was able to maneuver out of its path and Detroit it. the enemy used a bait HVT to attract its fire.

Don't play 1500? 1500 keeps the stupid things to a minimum. No multiple SHV or GCs, typically, and it's hard to spam power units.

we only play 3k .. never had those problem. at 1500 there is a "best" build and you literally can not afford to take any fun units. We have the "dont be a tool" rule. If someone tries to be a jerk and make a broken list you simply slap them. At 1500 lists are either overpowered or near useless. and again so few units there is not room for tactical positioning or strategic give and take.

we play 1500 for ZM games. and it works well since you cant take bigger models anyway. But the limited LOS and objectives (we neve rplay only kill points) still force strategic positioning. I constantly hear the same complaint as what the OP said from newbies coming to our group. Thus far all of them have been very happy with the change of game.

If youre playing 3k points I hope youre using a 4x8 (or better yet a 6x8) table, because that many models on a 4x6 is just dumb. It isnt really even a game anymore, its just dice rolling.

I WON!

Beat a Tyranid army last night. It wasn't a 'good' victory, I was in serious danger of getting tabled if we'd gone into turn 6, but I held enough objectives to win on points (yay for first blood and slay the warlord).

Star of the show was a squad of firewarriors rapid firing a Hive Tyrant to death, killing the synapse on a half of the table and causing a load of his army to break and run. On the downside he managed to genestealer and termagant assault and kill both my hammerhead and riptide, should have been more careful with them!

My new least favourite enemy unit is a Tervigon. He refused to roll a double and spewed out wave after wave of the little gits! Kept my firewarrior's trigger fingers VERY busy.

Edit - I also did the 'Suicide Pathfinders' thing again. Assaulted 2 lictors with a squad of pathfinders. Didn't end well!

But...you realize the Vindy is extremely extremely close to a las predator, which is in the base game right? It gains firepower, loses flexibility. The thing can't move, and if you get weapon destroyed it's a Mehtal Bawks.

Really if you're gonna pick a FW model to whine about try something at least a little bit strong...

chaos0xomega wrote:


If youre playing 3k points I hope youre using a 4x8 (or better yet a 6x8) table, because that many models on a 4x6 is just dumb. It isnt really even a game anymore, its just dice rolling.

depends on the army. but the tactical options force much tougher choices. never had any problems fitting 3k on a regular board although nids come close. remember reserves.......

Tervigons spew a lot of bugs, but killing one does great things to all those little guys!

(I've lost more to Gaunts out of Synapse than I'd like to admit, though.)

 pumpinchimp wrote:
This is my army - http://hq-builder.com/shared/106308

I built it based on the models I liked rather that ones that would win games and, other than a single Piranha, it's every model I've got. I know roughly what to do to make it better (basically go Farsight Enclave and get an ethereal).

Also, I'm determined to get everything painted before I buy anything new.

You bought models that you liked rather then what would win you games.. then you complain that you cant win games .. haha

 pumpinchimp wrote:
I WON!

Beat a Tyranid army last night. It wasn't a 'good' victory, I was in serious danger of getting tabled if we'd gone into turn 6, but I held enough objectives to win on points (yay for first blood and slay the warlord).

Star of the show was a squad of firewarriors rapid firing a Hive Tyrant to death, killing the synapse on a half of the table and causing a load of his army to break and run. On the downside he managed to genestealer and termagant assault and kill both my hammerhead and riptide, should have been more careful with them!

My new least favourite enemy unit is a Tervigon. He refused to roll a double and spewed out wave after wave of the little gits! Kept my firewarrior's trigger fingers VERY busy.

Edit - I also did the 'Suicide Pathfinders' thing again. Assaulted 2 lictors with a squad of pathfinders. Didn't end well!

Great to hear!

If you can kill a fluffy Tyranid's synapse blanket, the army really starts to fall apart. So much that all those Termagaunts out of range are pretty much unimportant. Hope some of the tactical advice here helped!

Sorry to hear you can't pull in a Victory yet homie!

Go on Youtube and checkout "Fritz 40K". He is a fantastic strategist and offers a lot of great videos. TIP: Listen to his videos while you paint.

I would push for smaller points level games & Combat Patrols. The Goal is to learn the rules in action and learn your army strengths/weaknesses.

 ImAGeek wrote:

You didn't start off ruling at chess though, is his point. There's a learning curve to any game.

Truer words were never spoken!

Your experience with "Forge World" is extremely limited and if you are still playing a year from now you will look back on this statement regarding this one unit and recognize it is just one made of inexperience.


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 pumpinchimp wrote:
I WON!

Beat a Tyranid army last night. It wasn't a 'good' victory, I was in serious danger of getting tabled if we'd gone into turn 6, but I held enough objectives to win on points (yay for first blood and slay the warlord).

Star of the show was a squad of firewarriors rapid firing a Hive Tyrant to death, killing the synapse on a half of the table and causing a load of his army to break and run. On the downside he managed to genestealer and termagant assault and kill both my hammerhead and riptide, should have been more careful with them!

My new least favourite enemy unit is a Tervigon. He refused to roll a double and spewed out wave after wave of the little gits! Kept my firewarrior's trigger fingers VERY busy.

Edit - I also did the 'Suicide Pathfinders' thing again. Assaulted 2 lictors with a squad of pathfinders. Didn't end well!

Seriously - these are the best games. Games that are completely one-sided are dull.