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 Korinov wrote:

It'll be either a "The End Times" style campaign (likely with the Emprah making a reappearance mounted on his grav-powered Adepta RotaSella and shooting two lascannons out of his eyes) before a new edition, or a new edition straight up.

Knowing GW, I'd expect either Laser Destroyers at the least, if not Turbolaser Destructors...

 Accolade wrote:
I remember people screaming that there was no way 7th was coming out after two years, that those who believed it was happening were poisoning the game and just "haters."

Fast forward to now, and it seems people are welcoming s possible 8th one to two years after 7th. I guess paying up $85-$100 for a largely recycled rule book isn't so bad when you convince yourself that GW does things for reasons beyond our comprehension and for the "greater good" of 40k. They're like a god, unknowable and mysterious, and damnit, you better not question them, less you wish to be smote!

Keep in mind though that rushing 7th was a reaction to the loss of a design argument during the creation of 6th. Some members of GW wanted to include superheavies and fortifications into the core rules, while others felt they should be expansions. When the tournaments rejected these expansions and the new formations, many in the player base followed suit. They made 7th to codify those elements into play. Not for any greater good, but to sell models. Any movement on 8th edition would have to include another revolutionary idea that would sell more kits when they are in the midst of executing their big new idea, the Decurion style detachments. Right now there is more money in revising codexes to promote model sales than there is in revamping the edition. I can't see them shifting the work of the design team away from those to work on a new ruleset unless they cooked up something even more game changing than detachments.

 Massawyrm wrote:

 Accolade wrote:
I remember people screaming that there was no way 7th was coming out after two years, that those who believed it was happening were poisoning the game and just "haters."

Fast forward to now, and it seems people are welcoming s possible 8th one to two years after 7th. I guess paying up $85-$100 for a largely recycled rule book isn't so bad when you convince yourself that GW does things for reasons beyond our comprehension and for the "greater good" of 40k. They're like a god, unknowable and mysterious, and damnit, you better not question them, less you wish to be smote!

Keep in mind though that rushing 7th was a reaction to the loss of a design argument during the creation of 6th. Some members of GW wanted to include superheavies and fortifications into the core rules, while others felt they should be expansions. When the tournaments rejected these expansions and the new formations, many in the player base followed suit. They made 7th to codify those elements into play. Not for any greater good, but to sell models. Any movement on 8th edition would have to include another revolutionary idea that would sell more kits when they are in the midst of executing their big new idea, the Decurion style detachments. Right now there is more money in revising codexes to promote model sales than there is in revamping the edition. I can't see them shifting the work of the design team away from those to work on a new ruleset unless they cooked up something even more game changing than detachments.

They already have: Detachments inside Detachments! Now you can have an FOC chart in your FOC chart! Now with 200%-300% more formations!

Tyranids will be the last codex, but the first in the new "reasonable, not-overpowered codex" cycle again, like in 5th and 6th. Other players will ask nid players to QQ moar. or wait for all codexes to be nerfed, just like what is happening with necrons, elves and marines now. /s

I'd be happy if they only manage to further nerf the nid codex slightly this time round, but what'll really happen is wings will grant jump instead of FMC, stealers will come with 6+ saves, upgradable to 5+ for 15 pts, venom cannon becomes AP-, we'll lose all anti-vehicle options other than 400pt tyrannofexes (heavy 1, str9, AP6), fexes will get a 50% point increase, and somehow, they'll manage to nerf the pyrovore even more. Probably all tyranid models on the board take a str: D hit when its destroyed or something. Losing sypnase causes str: D hit at 2x the unit size, along with losing ability to capture objectives. The only "D" we'll be getting is hits against our own models.

Mark my words, nids will be first in the nerf-cycle. Happened twice, will happen again.

I think that's what they'll end up doing- cooking up tons of opportunity to have super units that require purchases of all the models they have for a range. That, coupled with more and more formations that offer free points, and the game will go through another ballooning where there simply won't be 40k- it'll all just be Apocalypse.

Boy, forcing everything into the regular game was a great idea, that'll show those stupid players who didn't want to use our expansions! Wait, what do you mean revenue dropped again?!

 Massawyrm wrote:

 Accolade wrote:
I remember people screaming that there was no way 7th was coming out after two years, that those who believed it was happening were poisoning the game and just "haters."

Fast forward to now, and it seems people are welcoming s possible 8th one to two years after 7th. I guess paying up $85-$100 for a largely recycled rule book isn't so bad when you convince yourself that GW does things for reasons beyond our comprehension and for the "greater good" of 40k. They're like a god, unknowable and mysterious, and damnit, you better not question them, less you wish to be smote!

Keep in mind though that rushing 7th was a reaction to the loss of a design argument during the creation of 6th. Some members of GW wanted to include superheavies and fortifications into the core rules, while others felt they should be expansions. When the tournaments rejected these expansions and the new formations, many in the player base followed suit. They made 7th to codify those elements into play. Not for any greater good, but to sell models. Any movement on 8th edition would have to include another revolutionary idea that would sell more kits when they are in the midst of executing their big new idea, the Decurion style detachments. Right now there is more money in revising codexes to promote model sales than there is in revamping the edition. I can't see them shifting the work of the design team away from those to work on a new ruleset unless they cooked up something even more game changing than detachments.

First time I'm reading about this. Have a source? I hate to say it, but your post smells a little too much like the stereotypical "All GW does is make rules to sell models" gatorate floating around Dakka.

 Enigwolf wrote:

 Massawyrm wrote:

 Accolade wrote:
I remember people screaming that there was no way 7th was coming out after two years, that those who believed it was happening were poisoning the game and just "haters."

Fast forward to now, and it seems people are welcoming s possible 8th one to two years after 7th. I guess paying up $85-$100 for a largely recycled rule book isn't so bad when you convince yourself that GW does things for reasons beyond our comprehension and for the "greater good" of 40k. They're like a god, unknowable and mysterious, and damnit, you better not question them, less you wish to be smote!

Keep in mind though that rushing 7th was a reaction to the loss of a design argument during the creation of 6th. Some members of GW wanted to include superheavies and fortifications into the core rules, while others felt they should be expansions. When the tournaments rejected these expansions and the new formations, many in the player base followed suit. They made 7th to codify those elements into play. Not for any greater good, but to sell models. Any movement on 8th edition would have to include another revolutionary idea that would sell more kits when they are in the midst of executing their big new idea, the Decurion style detachments. Right now there is more money in revising codexes to promote model sales than there is in revamping the edition. I can't see them shifting the work of the design team away from those to work on a new ruleset unless they cooked up something even more game changing than detachments.

First time I'm reading about this. Have a source? I hate to say it, but your post smells a little too much like the stereotypical "All GW does is make rules to sell models" gatorate floating around Dakka.

Not to comment directly on the question at hand, but to be fair, GW itself is the source of that. They're a publicly traded company, and in their reports to stockholders and the market, they make it very clear that their business is, above and beyond anything else, selling models. They tell stockholders straight up "Games Workshop's strategy is to make the best fantasy miniatures in the world and sell them globally at a profit, and it intends doing so forever".and "Our market is a niche market made up of people who want to collect our miniatures."

Not "make the best fantasy games" not "people who want to play our games", but it's specifically about miniatures.

They'll be like, oh, we've only got IG left to buff. And nerf the hell out of them so that they'll need to rewrite (and you to buy) all the new cycle of toned down dexes. And than they'll go like, oh, we've only got eldar left to nerf. And power creep them to the moon so that they'll need to rewrite (and you to buy) all the new cycle of power creeped dexes. And than they'll go like, oh, we've only got IG left to buff...

Relax, you'll always have something to waste money on. It's GW policy.

8th edition 40K this year, don't think so, when 9th edition Fantasy is just around the corner, my gut feeling is that 8th edition will come out next year with a new starter box which I have heard will be Black Legion v Crimson Slaughter (just joking).

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Enigwolf wrote:
First time I'm reading about this. Have a source? I hate to say it, but your post smells a little too much like the stereotypical "All GW does is make rules to sell models" gatorate floating around Dakka.

Not to comment directly on the question at hand, but to be fair, GW itself is the source of that. They're a publicly traded company, and in their reports to stockholders and the market, they make it very clear that their business is, above and beyond anything else, selling models. They tell stockholders straight up "Games Workshop's strategy is to make the best fantasy miniatures in the world and sell them globally at a profit, and it intends doing so forever".and "Our market is a niche market made up of people who want to collect our miniatures."

Not "make the best fantasy games" not "people who want to play our games", but it's specifically about miniatures.

This. GW never comments directly on these issues and has never had a PR/Marketing department face to speak of. Most of what I know comes from ex-employees, insiders (I used to be a geek journalist and still talk to a lot of folks in the various industries), and reading between the lines of leaks. You can trace a line through the early rumors of 6th ed through those of 7th on through to what we're seeing now and see what I'm talking about. But there isn't an article I can link to that says "BAM! MASSAWYRM SPEAKS THE TRUTH!" So feel free to take what I have to say with as much salt as needed.

 Massawyrm wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Enigwolf wrote:
First time I'm reading about this. Have a source? I hate to say it, but your post smells a little too much like the stereotypical "All GW does is make rules to sell models" gatorate floating around Dakka.

Not to comment directly on the question at hand, but to be fair, GW itself is the source of that. They're a publicly traded company, and in their reports to stockholders and the market, they make it very clear that their business is, above and beyond anything else, selling models. They tell stockholders straight up "Games Workshop's strategy is to make the best fantasy miniatures in the world and sell them globally at a profit, and it intends doing so forever".and "Our market is a niche market made up of people who want to collect our miniatures."

Not "make the best fantasy games" not "people who want to play our games", but it's specifically about miniatures.

This. GW never comments directly on these issues and has never had a PR/Marketing department face to speak of. Most of what I know comes from ex-employees, insiders (I used to be a geek journalist and still talk to a lot of folks in the various industries), and reading between the lines of leaks. You can trace a line through the early rumors of 6th ed through those of 7th on through to what we're seeing now and see what I'm talking about. But there isn't an article I can link to that says "BAM! MASSAWYRM SPEAKS THE TRUTH!" So feel free to take what I have to say with as much salt as needed.

Yeah, I was asking more specifically about this bit:

Massawyrm wrote:Keep in mind though that rushing 7th was a reaction to the loss of a design argument during the creation of 6th. Some members of GW wanted to include superheavies and fortifications into the core rules, while others felt they should be expansions. When the tournaments rejected these expansions and the new formations, many in the player base followed suit. They made 7th to codify those elements into play. Not for any greater good, but to sell models.

I'd been to Warhammer World a few times between 6th/7th and after 7th, and asked the staff (including GW Design Team) a lot of questions about the changes. This was something that never came up. Again, grain of salt everywhere - I don't disagree that what they tell shareholders is indeed selling models, though. That's plain and clear. It's just very much at odds with how much the designers ooze tender loving care for the game.

 Enigwolf wrote:
I'd been to Warhammer World a few times between 6th/7th and after 7th, and asked the staff (including GW Design Team) a lot of questions about the changes. This was something that never came up. Again, grain of salt everywhere - I don't disagree that what they tell shareholders is indeed selling models, though. That's plain and clear. It's just very much at odds with how much the designers ooze tender loving care for the game.

Oh, I'm certainly no cynic. Having done some work in the games industry myself, and knowing dozens of others who still do, I can tell you every person who works in the game industry LOVES their games. They have to - the pay is as depressing as it is embarrassing. But they work for companies. And those companies need to make money from one of the most notoriously cheap fanbases in the world in order to justify those small wages. So the higher ups pass down mandates and the designers are forced to make decisions on how best to sell models without breaking what it is about the game they love. The guys who wrote D&D 3.5 didn't love D&D any less because the higher ups demanded that the rules be restructured to make model sales easier and more necessary for play. And they didn't love it any less when the higher ups asked that 4e be more tactically minded, virtually requiring minis. And the folks that write the codexes and rules for 40k CLEARLY love the hell out of it. But they also know that their job is to write rules that sell models. The more models their rules sell, the longer they can keep their dreamjob.

And trust me, no one at GW is ever going to publicly say "Well, you see, the CEO wanted to know why we had so many Baneblade and Stompa kits sitting on the shelves and we said 'Because no one plays Apocalypse,' and he said 'Well, fix it,' so we did." But sometimes they'll say it over a beer.

I don't know much about how GW staff feels about their game. My knowladge is limited to some articles from people that left GW and what Jervis writes. And if the GW staff is half as crazy as he is, then a corporate mind set is probably better for the game. If all armies were OP, then non would actualy be. Sucks of course for those who have to wait for their turn. But it is a heaven compering to the stupid stuff the GW staff people write about. It is as if they were playing a totaly different game against people from another planet, living in a place where everything starting from income and ending with where people play.

Its all tied to sales now. They release so quickly to boost quarterly reports to cover up the lagging sales. As soon as this cycle is finished they'll start pushing 8th on us to keep it going, but this tactic is a short-term solution to help you get in place the long-term plan. But they don't have one.

They're living financial quarter to quarter. GW does nothing to bring in new players, while current ones are leaving. The game is still popular, but I think rate of new players coming in versus old one leaving is skewed slightly towards the one that's fed up.

 Massawyrm wrote:

 Enigwolf wrote:
I'd been to Warhammer World a few times between 6th/7th and after 7th, and asked the staff (including GW Design Team) a lot of questions about the changes. This was something that never came up. Again, grain of salt everywhere - I don't disagree that what they tell shareholders is indeed selling models, though. That's plain and clear. It's just very much at odds with how much the designers ooze tender loving care for the game.

Oh, I'm certainly no cynic. Having done some work in the games industry myself, and knowing dozens of others who still do, I can tell you every person who works in the game industry LOVES their games. They have to - the pay is as depressing as it is embarrassing. But they work for companies. And those companies need to make money from one of the most notoriously cheap fanbases in the world in order to justify those small wages. So the higher ups pass down mandates and the designers are forced to make decisions on how best to sell models without breaking what it is about the game they love. The guys who wrote D&D 3.5 didn't love D&D any less because the higher ups demanded that the rules be restructured to make model sales easier and more necessary for play. And they didn't love it any less when the higher ups asked that 4e be more tactically minded, virtually requiring minis. And the folks that write the codexes and rules for 40k CLEARLY love the hell out of it. But they also know that their job is to write rules that sell models. The more models their rules sell, the longer they can keep their dreamjob.

And trust me, no one at GW is ever going to publicly say "Well, you see, the CEO wanted to know why we had so many Baneblade and Stompa kits sitting on the shelves and we said 'Because no one plays Apocalypse,' and he said 'Well, fix it,' so we did." But sometimes they'll say it over a beer.

It's such a pity, because I think we'll all rue the day when our old-favorites like Jes Goodwin and Phil Kelly leave. "Losing" Graham McNeil to Riot Games was saddening (I put "losing" in quotes because he stated that he's still going to write 40k fiction, but we'll see...)

 Grey Knight Janitor wrote:
Its all tied to sales now. They release so quickly to boost quarterly reports to cover up the lagging sales. As soon as this cycle is finished they'll start pushing 8th on us to keep it going, but this tactic is a short-term solution to help you get in place the long-term plan. But they don't have one.

They're living financial quarter to quarter. GW does nothing to bring in new players, while current ones are leaving. The game is still popular, but I think rate of new players coming in versus old one leaving is skewed slightly towards the one that's fed up.

There's a separate thread debating GW's strategy and another one about their financial performance, to avoid repeat content being cross-posted. A lot of insights (and bloody noses) in them, though, so be warned.

I just hope that all armies get a proper 7th Edition update before they even remotely consider an 8th Edition. Just saying.

ITT: every codex that isn't SM, Eldar or Necrons is the worst ever.

With updates how they are, within 2 years we will see 8th edition/40k end times.

 Accolade wrote:
I wouldn't expect it till at least next summer.

If a new edition comes out next summer, I'm out. I'll buy a few things to read and a few models to paint, but I'll be done with 40k as a game.

gwarsh41 wrote:ITT: every codex that isn't SM, Eldar or Necrons is the worst ever.

With updates how they are, within 2 years we will see 8th edition/40k end times.

But haven't you heard? Eldar are still the most OP faction ever! What? Why are you looking at Space Marines? What's AdMech? Begone! Eldar are everything that's wrong with 40k!

Like I said, 8th edition probably won't be out for a couple more years. GW is now actually going to focus their releases on Warhammer Fantasy.
Also, 40k is already in the end times. Haven't you heard about the 13th Black Crusade?

kronk wrote:

 Accolade wrote:
I wouldn't expect it till at least next summer.

If a new edition comes out next summer, I'm out. I'll buy a few things to read and a few models to paint, but I'll be done with 40k as a game.

Same here. I might just keep on playing 7th edition, because I'm actually enjoying it. But with any luck, we won't be hearing about 8th edition for some time yet.

 TheNewBlood wrote:

gwarsh41 wrote:ITT: every codex that isn't SM, Eldar or Necrons is the worst ever.

With updates how they are, within 2 years we will see 8th edition/40k end times.

But haven't you heard? Eldar are still the most OP faction ever! What? Why are you looking at Space Marines? What's AdMech? Begone! Eldar are everything that's wrong with 40k!

Like I said, 8th edition probably won't be out for a couple more years. GW is now actually going to focus their releases on Warhammer Fantasy.
Also, 40k is already in the end times. Haven't you heard about the 13th Black Crusade?

kronk wrote:

 Accolade wrote:
I wouldn't expect it till at least next summer.

If a new edition comes out next summer, I'm out. I'll buy a few things to read and a few models to paint, but I'll be done with 40k as a game.

Same here. I might just keep on playing 7th edition, because I'm actually enjoying it. But with any luck, we won't be hearing about 8th edition for some time yet.

I want them to finish the 13th Black Crusade already.