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The Tau aren't warp-sensitive but they have managed to use the warp for FTL some extent using wrecks of other race's ships.

Their method involves 'skimming' the surface of the warp - they don't get deep enough to be affected by any of the weird stuff.
This method is about 1/3 to 1/2 of the speed of a 'perfect' warp travel by Imperials along the same route; however it avoids the possibility of being disintegrated, going forwards/backwards in time, swallowed by daemons... pretty good trade-off IMO. I think it also means they aren't restricted to certain warp routes as Imperial ships tend to be.
However, it also means that messages being relayed throughout the empire must be done by hand (or by drone), meaning information takes a lot longer to disseminate.

The Kroot are warp sensitive; and they are able to use this sensitivity to identify and scout out inhabited systems. The Tau use this ability to find new planets for colonization.

On the matter of Necron FTL, here's a quote from Shield of Baal: Exterminatus.

Turning his fleet toward the glinting crimson orbs of Cryptus, Anrakyr engaged his inertialess drive, his vast Necron armada streaking off into the void. Unlike the ships of the Imperium, those of the Necrons did not travel through the Warp, and so the great psychic barrier cast out by the Hive Mind was no impediment to their fleet.

 lcmiracle wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Except that Dolmen Gates are incredibly rare to the point where the Sautekh Dynasty eliminated another dynasty outright just to control a single Dolmen Gate orbitting around a piece of gak world in the middle of nowhere that doesn't even have a name - reference Hammer and Anvil, James Swallow, released at the same time as the Warddex.

Please, as if the Necron Dynasty aren't eliminating/assimilating each other already.
For an expansionist such as Imotekh sometimes even just one tomb world can be worth eliminating a dynasty for; not to mention for an expansionist any Dolmen Gate is worth total annihilation for due to the potential area for conquest it can open up. The Maynarkh Dynasty can be amongst those with access to more than a handful of Dolmen Gates.
The fact that Dolmen Gates are so highly contested shows just how little option the Necrons have; had inertialess drives been canon there would be no need for such inter-dynastic conflicts.

Just because something isn't mentioned in a Codex doesn't mean that it's been retconned. Unless something is explicitly stated to no longer exist, then it still exists.

 dusara217 wrote:

 lcmiracle wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Except that Dolmen Gates are incredibly rare to the point where the Sautekh Dynasty eliminated another dynasty outright just to control a single Dolmen Gate orbitting around a piece of gak world in the middle of nowhere that doesn't even have a name - reference Hammer and Anvil, James Swallow, released at the same time as the Warddex.

Please, as if the Necron Dynasty aren't eliminating/assimilating each other already.
For an expansionist such as Imotekh sometimes even just one tomb world can be worth eliminating a dynasty for; not to mention for an expansionist any Dolmen Gate is worth total annihilation for due to the potential area for conquest it can open up. The Maynarkh Dynasty can be amongst those with access to more than a handful of Dolmen Gates.
The fact that Dolmen Gates are so highly contested shows just how little option the Necrons have; had inertialess drives been canon there would be no need for such inter-dynastic conflicts.

Just because something isn't mentioned in a Codex doesn't mean that it's been retconned. Unless something is explicitly stated to no longer exist, then it still exists.

Except that, like I said several post before, in 5E it's explicitly stated it doesn't exist:

Aeons have passed since those times. The Old Ones are gone, and the webway itself has become a tangled and broken labyrinth. Many Dolmen Gates were lost or abandoned during the time of the Great Sleep, and many more were destroyed by the Eldar. Those that remain grant access to but a small portion of the webway, much of that voluntarily sealed off by the Eldar to prevent further contamination. Yet the webway is immeasurably vast, and even these sundered skeins allow the Necrons a mode of travel that far outpaces those of the younger races. It is well that this is so. As a race bereft of psykers, the Necrons are incapable of Warp travel, and without access to the webway, they would be forced to rely once more on slow-voyaging stasis-ships. Dooming them to isolation. (Codex: Necrons. "Dolmen Gates". 5th Edition. p8)

Unless, of course, we are going by the wild assumption that every new edition is automatically a retcon; in which case 7E not mentioning the Inertialess drive would indeed be a recton that it now exists(?)... Otherwise, not mentioning inertialess drive in the new edition, and not explicitly stating that such device exists again (because you must recton the previous recton), is just a continuation from the 5E fluff, and not a recton.

 lcmiracle wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:

 lcmiracle wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Except that Dolmen Gates are incredibly rare to the point where the Sautekh Dynasty eliminated another dynasty outright just to control a single Dolmen Gate orbitting around a piece of gak world in the middle of nowhere that doesn't even have a name - reference Hammer and Anvil, James Swallow, released at the same time as the Warddex.

Please, as if the Necron Dynasty aren't eliminating/assimilating each other already.
For an expansionist such as Imotekh sometimes even just one tomb world can be worth eliminating a dynasty for; not to mention for an expansionist any Dolmen Gate is worth total annihilation for due to the potential area for conquest it can open up. The Maynarkh Dynasty can be amongst those with access to more than a handful of Dolmen Gates.
The fact that Dolmen Gates are so highly contested shows just how little option the Necrons have; had inertialess drives been canon there would be no need for such inter-dynastic conflicts.

Just because something isn't mentioned in a Codex doesn't mean that it's been retconned. Unless something is explicitly stated to no longer exist, then it still exists.

Except that, like I said several post before, in 5E it's explicitly stated it doesn't exist:

Aeons have passed since those times. The Old Ones are gone, and the webway itself has become a tangled and broken labyrinth. Many Dolmen Gates were lost or abandoned during the time of the Great Sleep, and many more were destroyed by the Eldar. Those that remain grant access to but a small portion of the webway, much of that voluntarily sealed off by the Eldar to prevent further contamination. Yet the webway is immeasurably vast, and even these sundered skeins allow the Necrons a mode of travel that far outpaces those of the younger races. It is well that this is so. As race bereft of psykers, the Necrons are incapable of Warp travel, and without access to the webway, they would be forced to rely once more on slow-voyaging stasis-ships. Dooming them to isolation. (Codex: Necrons. "Dolmen Gates". 5th Edition. p8)

Unless, of course, we are going by the wild assumption that every new edition is automatically a retcon; in which case 7E not mentioning the Inertialess drive would indeed be a recton that it now exists. Otherwise, not mentioning inertialess drive in the new edition, and not explicitly stating that such device exists again (because you must recton the previous recton), is not a recton.

First of all, in recent publications (notably, Shield of Baal) have mentioned inertialess drives being used by the Necrons.
Second of all, that was just a paragraph about the Dolmen Gates, it said nothing about inertialess drives.

 dusara217 wrote:
First of all, in recent publications (notably, Shield of Baal) have mentioned inertialess drives being used by the Necrons.
Second of all, that was just a paragraph about the Dolmen Gates, it said nothing about inertialess drives.

Well first, on your second point, it explicitly said that without Dolmen Gates, the Necrons will be forced to use "slow-voyaging stasis-ships. Dooming them to isolation". If they had inertialess drives they would not have to use stasis ships, nor forced into isolation, because it's certainly not slow (unless, of course, it somehow is slow in the context of interstellar traveling, in which case -- why use it?). It was an explicit retcon.

Second, in response to your first point: I haven't heard of the inertialess drive in the Shield of Baal novels. If it has such a mention, I'd very much like to know what it is, and in what context it is mentioned.

P.S.: Come to think of it, you are right that it wasn't an explicit retcon, just strongly implied. However, it still puts the inertialess drive at the "slow stasis ship" category. But I will change my stance if the relevant information is given and it is sound in context.

lcmiracle wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:
First of all, in recent publications (notably, Shield of Baal) have mentioned inertialess drives being used by the Necrons.
Second of all, that was just a paragraph about the Dolmen Gates, it said nothing about inertialess drives.

Well first, on your second point, it explicitly said that without Dolmen Gates, the Necrons will be forced to use "slow-voyaging stasis-ships. Dooming them to isolation". If they had inertialess drives they would not have to use stasis ships, nor forced into isolation, because it's certainly not slow (unless, of course, it somehow is slow in the context of interstellar traveling, in which case -- why use it?). It was an explicit retcon.

Second, in response to your first point: I haven't heard of the inertialess drive in the Shield of Baal novels. If it has such a mention, I'd very much like to know what it is, and in what context it is mentioned.

P.S.: Come to think of it, you are right that it wasn't an explicit retcon, just strongly implied. However, it still puts the inertialess drive at the "slow stasis ship" category. But I will change my stance if the relevant information is given and it is sound in context.

To quote myself:

TCF wrote:On the matter of Necron FTL, here's a quote from Shield of Baal: Exterminatus.

Turning his fleet toward the glinting crimson orbs of Cryptus, Anrakyr engaged his inertialess drive, his vast Necron armada streaking off into the void. Unlike the ships of the Imperium, those of the Necrons did not travel through the Warp, and so the great psychic barrier cast out by the Hive Mind was no impediment to their fleet.

Huh, interesting. Very well, so the Necrons can now use inertialess drives. I guess it helps to have multiple options.

Another point is that the Dolmen Gate in the 7e codex is used to make Monoliths appear on an open field - if the Dolmen Gate were still a 'webway hack', then they would need a webway portal to come out of when using the Dolmen Gate.

Unlike teleporting and warp travel, you can't just exit the Webway wherever you please - you have to have an established gate device, webway, dolmen or otherwise, on the materium side of the exit point.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Another point is that the Dolmen Gate in the 7e codex is used to make Monoliths appear on an open field - if the Dolmen Gate were still a 'webway hack', then they would need a webway portal to come out of when using the Dolmen Gate.

Unlike teleporting and warp travel, you can't just exit the Webway wherever you please - you have to have an established gate device, webway, dolmen or otherwise, on the materium side of the exit point.

Well, gonna have to stop you there -- I see nothing to indicate a dolmen is not a webway hack in 7E. There is nothing indicating it's not a fixed construct:

Another strobing pulse of plasma fire tore across the Necron lines, ripping molten fragments from ranks of living metal warriors. Out in the azure haze, puppet-like wraithbone constructs and agile Eldar Guardians stalked toward the phalanx of Necron Warriors clustered around the flickering dolmen gate. Then, from out of the rippling portal, a Monolith tore into reality, its immense shadow falling across the advancing Eldar army. Filled with nothing but contempt for his enemies of old, Nemesor Orunakh emerged from the Monolith’s eternity gate, green energy sparks dancing across his embellished war raiment. At his back came Immortals and fresh legions of Warriors from the Sautekh Dynasty. (Codex: Necrons. "The Awakening". 7th Edition. digital)

No where does it say it's not an established construct. A webway portal, a dolmen gate are both pre-established constructions in the materium, where one can enter from one and exit from others. The Necrons do not need to "summon" it. The Eldars and Dark Eldars have both been noted for using Webway gates to ambush enemies. A webway gate, while static in its position, are hidden from sight until activated. Once activated, things just appears from within the Gate's portal, just like the Dolmen Gate did as described in this excerpt.

Furthermore, we know, from the same codex, that Dolmen Gates are fixed in physical position and need to be restored, as with the case of Imotekh:

781.M41 Rise of The Stormlord
Imotekh takes control of the Sautekh Dynasty. Executing any noble foolish enough to stand in his path, Imotekh cements his position by naming himself phaeron. Within a year of his awakening, the dolmen gates and Tomb Ships of Mandragora are restored, and Imotekh's reconquest of the galaxy begins in earnest.
(Codex: Necrons. "A New Epoch Begins". 7th Edition. digital)

Note how it specifies the Dolmen Gates in question are on Mandragora, the crownworld of the Sautekh Dynasty.

The Eternity Gate is another Necron Tech entirely. Which is "a dimensional corridor between the battlefield and a tomb world".

Well, the Eternity Gate is in and of itself a mark against the Dolmen Gates as webway hacks, I guess - if you can create hyperspace tunnels through the materium, why would you ever touch something as hazardous as the Warp/Webway?

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Well, the Eternity Gate is in and of itself a mark against the Dolmen Gates as webway hacks, I guess - if you can create hyperspace tunnels through the materium, why would you ever touch something as hazardous as the Warp/Webway?

"Yo Dawg. We, the Necrons, love sending troops through inter-dimensional portals, so we installed an inter-dimensional portal on a thing that must first be teleported through an inter-dimensional portal, so we can teleport through our portals while teleporting through our portals!"
Absolutely brilliant.
But it's true, the eternity gate is a device so large it must be mounted on a huge pyramid, and it's still only just large enough for infantries or jump infantries. The Dolmen Gates may still serve as a portal for large units, like vehicles, monoliths and ships (if the Dolmen is in space, as is sometimes the case with Webway Gates).

 Evident-Disaster wrote:
How large are Warp drives for Imperial ships? I mean the size of most vessels they've gotta be massive. Or is that just for warships?

Very large. This is why (iirc) the smallest Warp-capable ship in the Imperium is still some 750 meters long. Not only are they large, but they have prodigious power requirements, which may possibly be the fault of the Gellar Field generators, rather than the drive itself.

Suffice it to say, Warp Drives are large enough that single-pilot craft, like Valkyries and Lightning Strike Fighters, are not equipped with them. Unlike Star Wars, there's no disposable Warp Drive, or single-seat fighter making the jump.

Trasvi wrote:
The Tau aren't warp-sensitive but they have managed to use the warp for FTL some extent using wrecks of other race's ships.

Their method involves 'skimming' the surface of the warp - they don't get deep enough to be affected by any of the weird stuff.
This method is about 1/3 to 1/2 of the speed of a 'perfect' warp travel by Imperials along the same route; however it avoids the possibility of being disintegrated, going forwards/backwards in time, swallowed by daemons... pretty good trade-off IMO. I think it also means they aren't restricted to certain warp routes as Imperial ships tend to be.
However, it also means that messages being relayed throughout the empire must be done by hand (or by drone), meaning information takes a lot longer to disseminate.

The Kroot are warp sensitive; and they are able to use this sensitivity to identify and scout out inhabited systems. The Tau use this ability to find new planets for colonization.

Keep in mind, though, that current Tau warp drives are much faster than those used during the Damocles Crusade. In all likeliness, the Tau will continue to make their engines faster. The Imperium, however, is only going to encounter more danger in travelling as time goes on.

There's a hard limit on how fast a warp skipper drive can go though without breaking through to warpspace proper, because until it does that it still has to deal with relativity.

The Saruthi could travel FTL by bending spacetime.
(Xenls - Eisenhorn Trilogy)

The Saruthi existed in a kind of webway-like protrusion into The Warp, didn't they?

Not sure if it was specifically the Warp or simply some "other dimension" in the Lovecraftian sense but, yeah, something along those lines.

 Evident-Disaster wrote:
Okay, though I'd still like to know about that faction which uses non-warp technology, I know it's not Necrons, but I can't remember the name.
I know they had a force in Battlefleet Gothic, though I can't remember if they were ever retconned. They might not have been.

The Tau use warp hops and STL travel, and the Nids use gravity manipulation to fall towards their destination.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Evident-Disaster wrote:
Wow that seems highly unreliable, so no one has produced some kind of chart or ay kind of lore around it?

The IOM has warp routes that take an estimatable amount of time, but sh*t happens anyway.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
There's a hard limit on how fast a warp skipper drive can go though without breaking through to warpspace proper, because until it does that it still has to deal with relativity.

... and I'm guessing you know that because of your PhD in space magic?

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
There's a hard limit on how fast a warp skipper drive can go though without breaking through to warpspace proper, because until it does that it still has to deal with relativity.

... and I'm guessing you know that because of your PhD in space magic?

No, that would be called 'common sense'. You can only dip your toe so far into a pool before it is submerged.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
There's a hard limit on how fast a warp skipper drive can go though without breaking through to warpspace proper, because until it does that it still has to deal with relativity.

... and I'm guessing you know that because of your PhD in space magic?

Yes, in fact, I do. I also hold an MBA ('mediocre but arrogant') qualification in bs.