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lessthanjeff wrote:Now compare those 3 rules you listed as examples to Feel No Pain, Relentless, or It Will Not Die. Why then are the independent characters not able to have those benefits? Some are shared, some are not. Where are you proving that this case has more in common with Slow and Purposeful than (ironically) with Relentless which you want to share and is listed as a rule that doesn't get shared?

I explained it. Why did you ignore it?

The rules for the Skyhammer Formation are applied to the unit. In the case of the First the Fire rule, it gives the devastator squad Relentless, not just the models with the rule.

FNP, Relentless, and It Will Not Die do not address as affecting the unit on their own. In most cases, they specifically address the model with the rule.

The Skyhammer Formation Special Rules do not address only the models with the rules. They do not leave the target undefined, either. They specifically address units, either generally as "units" or specifically by name (to separate the abilities from being used by all 6 units).

lessthanjeff wrote:Nobody is saying they aren't a unit at all. We're saying the rule is attached to the models that come from the Devastator Squad (or Assault Squad) data sheet only. Otherwise, we can take formations like the Aspect Host and attached IC's will get +1 BS, or attach some infantry to a unit of flesh hounds from the Gorepack and suddenly they have Hammer of Wrath.

So, you quoted me, but you didn't actually read what I actually said? How sad.

The rules of the Formation are only carried by the models purchased for it. In other words, First the Fire is carried by the Drop Pods, the Marines, and the Sergeants alone. Independent Characters cannot possess them, at least not from this Formation.

But that does not matter. An IC does not need to possess a rule in order to be affected by it. A Blood Angel in a Dark Angel unit with Grim Resolve does not have Stubborn. But, that Librarian's Leadership will not suffer any negative affects for Morale Checks and Pinning Tests. The Marines and Sergeant in a Skyhammer Assault Squad will not have the Zealot rule when a Chaplain joins them, yet they will get to reroll their failed To-Hit rolls during their first round of combat, even without their opponent having been forced in to Gone To Ground by the same Formation's devastator squads.

lessthanjeff wrote:I even play Space Marines (as well as far too many other armies) and I still don't think anything shows that this rule extends past the models on the Devastator Squad entry itself.

It's quite simple. The rule affects the units, not just models with the rule, just like Stubborn does.

lessthanjeff wrote:1.) I read the formation and saw First the Fire granted to a Devastator Squad, so I turned to the Devastator Squad dataslate and added it to the list of special rules (assuming I'm going to meet the formation requirements).

This is the correct method.

lessthanjeff wrote:2.) I turned to the Captain dataslate and saw no such rule listed. I double check the formation and see no mention of adding the rule to the Captain's list of special rules. (Note, no units are combined here yet, we're just looking at the special rules on dataslates and seeing who is granted what.)

Granted. This is still not in dispute.

lessthanjeff wrote:3.) I determine the Devastator Squad has a special rule that the Captain does not and turn to page 166 in the rulebook.

Again, still not really in dispute.

lessthanjeff wrote:4.) I notice the line "Unless specified in the rule itself, the unit's special rules are not conferred upon the Independent Character". I check the example of a rule that does confer and note the line "when a unit that contains at least one model with this special rule" which is absent from First the Fire.

??? Where does it state the phrase is the requirement to specifically state it affects the IC along with the unit? Especially when "when a devastator squad unit from the Skyhammer Formation with at least one member from the devastator squad" is incredibly, and stupidly, redundant.

However, if you note, this rule specifically addresses the unit with its affect. And what do the Formation's rules address?