Giving Necrons Their Own Feel

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**vipoid**

The Wise Dane wrote:

But it's not the point - a losing unit of Warriors is a unit of Warriors who cannot perform the function it was supposed to (taking a fort, finding something, holding ground), in which case it's better to fall back so they might regroup, reassemble and try again. Getting the whole unit to get chopped up and zapped back to base will prevent them from performing their intended function.

Um, how does them retreating and getting cut down prevent this?

it's like saying "Hmm, there's a puddle on this bridge and I don't want to get wet. I know - I'll jump off the bridge and into the river, then I won't have to touch the puddle. Genius."

**Furyou Miko**

Dane... you need to realise... Necrons aren't actually robots (except the Canopteks).

**The Wise Dane**

vipoid wrote:
The Wise Dane wrote:

But it's not the point - a losing unit of Warriors is a unit of Warriors who cannot perform the function it was supposed to (taking a fort, finding something, holding ground), in which case it's better to fall back so they might regroup, reassemble and try again. Getting the whole unit to get chopped up and zapped back to base will prevent them from performing their intended function.

Um, how does them retreating and getting cut down prevent this?

it's like saying "Hmm, there's a puddle on this bridge and I don't want to get wet. I know - I'll jump off the bridge and into the river, then I won't have to touch the puddle. Genius."

Well, that's not always something that happens. Them being cut down is of course something the unit wants to avoid, as the goal was to get away. They aren't aiming to be cut down

That the rules make this a very, very easy thing to do is a completely different discussion. It's good for crunch reasons, but does make it less tactical to exit combat.

Furyou Miko wrote:Dane... you need to realise... Necrons aren't actually robots (except the Canopteks).

Yes, I do know. That's what makes especially Warriors difficult, because one fluff source will state that they are basically mindless, while another one will make it seem like they have a simple instinctive mind. They don't mesh well.

**vipoid**

The Wise Dane wrote:

Well, that's not always something that happens. Them being cut down is of course something the unit wants to avoid, as the goal was to get away. They aren't aiming to be cut down

But that's my point - surely they must know (if only from experience) that they're not going to get away, and that they're just dooming themselves by attempting to flee?

I mean, let's take an extreme example - you have a unit of warriors locked in battle with a demon prince. Now, the odds of beating the demon prince are pretty low (let's say 7%, off the top of my head). So, if they stay and fight, there's only a 7% chance that some of them will survive to complete their mission. However, if they retreat, the odds of them surviving are 0%. There is no scenario where they get away. if they flee, then they are guaranteed to fail their mission. So, you have a 7% chance of success if they stay, vs a 0% chance of success if they flee. With no emotion or fear to distract them, staying in combat is the only logical choice.

**The Wise Dane**

vipoid wrote:
The Wise Dane wrote:

Well, that's not always something that happens. Them being cut down is of course something the unit wants to avoid, as the goal was to get away. They aren't aiming to be cut down

But that's my point - surely they must know (if only from experience) that they're not going to get away, and that they're just dooming themselves by attempting to flee?

I mean, let's take an extreme example - you have a unit of warriors locked in battle with a demon prince. Now, the odds of beating the demon prince are pretty low (let's say 7%, off the top of my head). So, if they stay and fight, there's only a 7% chance that some of them will survive to complete their mission. However, if they retreat, the odds of them surviving are 0%. There is no scenario where they get away. if they flee, then they are guaranteed to fail their mission. So, you have a 7% chance of success if they stay, vs a 0% chance of success if they flee. With no emotion or fear to distract them, staying in combat is the only logical choice.

With that logic, pretty much all of the factions in the game could get Stubborn. AdMech, Orks, Scions, Tyranids...

**vipoid**

The Wise Dane wrote:

With that logic, pretty much all of the factions in the game could get Stubborn. AdMech, Orks, Scions, Tyranids...

Tyranids already have Fearless when within Synapse, for similar reasons.

Are Orks or Scions fearless/calculating in the same way as Necrons? I thought both could, unlike Necrons, actually get scared.

Admech... I have no idea. I know next to nothing about them.

Amusingly though, i don't actually think Stubborn is the best fit for Necrons. Know what I'd give them to fit their fluff? ATSKNF. Think about it - they don't feel fear, but can still retreat when 'tactical', but always with enough discipline to immediately turn and fight (either shooting or in melee if they can't get away).

I imagine this would be bad for game balance (not to mention the dangers of being lynched by SM players

). But, in terms of fluff, I'd suggest that ATSKNF would best fit the Necrons.

**The Wise Dane**

vipoid wrote:
The Wise Dane wrote:

With that logic, pretty much all of the factions in the game could get Stubborn. AdMech, Orks, Scions, Tyranids...

Tyranids already have Fearless when within Synapse, for similar reasons.

Are Orks or Scions fearless/calculating in the same way as Necrons? I thought both could, unlike Necrons, actually get scared.

Admech... I have no idea. I know next to nothing about them.

Amusingly though, i don't actually think Stubborn is the best fit for Necrons. Know what I'd give them to fit their fluff? ATSKNF. Think about it - they don't feel fear, but can still retreat when 'tactical', but always with enough discipline to immediately turn and fight (either shooting or in melee if they can't get away).

I imagine this would be bad for game balance (not to mention the dangers of being lynched by SM players ). But, in terms of fluff, I'd suggest that ATSKNF would best fit the Necrons.

I see your point - But there's one thing I think we need to determain: What and how do a Warrior actually act? I've seen so much contradictive fluff on this that I can't in any goddamn way see what they are supposed to be. All other factions' demeanor are pretty clear, but Warriors are completely lost in how they are supposed to work. They are all build up around one gimmick (the silver walkers of death slowly approaching), so anything else has no fluff and explanation.

**vipoid**

Very true.

I might also be stuck in 3rd in terms of fluff. :s

**The Wise Dane**

I guess that's why I want to make some unique rules for Necrons, actually. Fluff may be fluff, but unless there's something crunchy to back it up, there can be no canon idea of how the faction works. Right now, Warriors could just as well be highly trained and augmented AdMech soldiers, as much as they could be Necrons. Nothing make them stand out in any way that matters...

But to get back on track, it would be cool that the powerful Necron HQs work against the faction, since, by all means, they are actually the weakest link in many cases. I like the idea of an inverted IC effect - If a Lord with Ld 8 is in a unit of Fearless Warriors, the Warriors lose Fearless and gain the Ld 8, because of its guidance. Same with non-Fearless models - A unit of Lychguard with Ld 9 are reduced to Ld 7 if they have a Cryptek with Ld 7 in the unit. Could be loads of fun, and give the player a lot of hard choices to make

**Furyou Miko**

Well, actually the 'slowly' part is pure fanon - there's nothing in any of the lore to say that Warriors walk slowly, and as far as the game is concerned, they use the same 'combat jog' as the rest of the no-fleet units in the galaxy.

**The Wise Dane**

Furyou Miko wrote:
Well, actually the 'slowly' part is pure fanon - there's nothing in any of the lore to say that Warriors walk slowly, and as far as the game is concerned, they use the same 'combat jog' as the rest of the no-fleet units in the galaxy.

Exactly, there's two things about the faction that's unique, and that's RP and Gauss.

**Furyou Miko**

That and the lack of squad leaders.

**vipoid**

The Wise Dane wrote:

Exactly, there's two things about the faction that's unique, and that's RP and Gauss.

The thing is, the new RPs aren't really anything special now. They're just a glorified FNP roll.

**The Wise Dane**

vipoid wrote:
The Wise Dane wrote:

Exactly, there's two things about the faction that's unique, and that's RP and Gauss.

The thing is, the new RPs aren't really anything special now. They're just a glorified FNP roll.

Thank you, finally someone see's it! If I can get a dime for every time someone have told me that RP is the special thing for Necrons, I'd have a bunch of outdated coins I could sell to a collector!

If the RP mechanic was more elaborate, it would be a lot cooler. I'm thinking Tomb Kings, mostly, with weak models that can be raised if you do the right thing for it. That's why I'd love to have T 3 Warriors, who can easily be both killed and reanimated by Lords and Overlords. Instead of having model counters, I'd just let models be added to a unit as long as it doesn't break the original model count for the unit. That'd be unique.

**vipoid**

I'll admit that I didn't mind the RP in 3rd or 5th - as they at least gave the impression of warriors reanimating (rather than just being a saving throw).

However, I actually really like your idea. It'd be awsome if Resurrection Orbs worked like they do in Dawn of War - where they resurrect all nearby Necrons who died.

Maybe Overlords and Lords could automatically resurrect members of any squad they're attached to each turn (something like the Ghost Arc ability).

Certainly a great concept to design rules around.

**The Wise Dane**

vipoid wrote:
I'll admit that I didn't mind the RP in 3rd or 5th - as they at least gave the impression of warriors reanimating (rather than just being a saving throw).

However, I actually really like your idea. It'd be awsome if Resurrection Orbs worked like they do in Dawn of War - where they resurrect all nearby Necrons who died.

Maybe Overlords and Lords could automatically resurrect members of any squad they're attached to each turn (something like the Ghost Arc ability).

Certainly a great concept to design rules around.

Thank you! At least it'd be unique. To make Crypteks more viable in that regard, they could upgrade their unit instead of making it reanimate, like giving stat upgrades and stuff, depending on their school.