Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Asterios wrote:
the imperium is as diverse as you paint it.

Yeah, everyone knows this. The problem is GW's refusal to include non-white people in their make believe space fantasy. It's weird enough that there are almost no women in the game, do they all have to be white too because "reasons?"

Asterios wrote:
the imperium is as diverse as you paint it.

Exalted sir. Plus there is a humongous range of 3rd party stuff out there if you want your guys to be a bit more equal opportunities friendly.

 Las wrote:

Asterios wrote:
the imperium is as diverse as you paint it.

Yeah, everyone knows this. The problem is GW's refusal to include non-white people in their make believe space fantasy. It's weird enough that there are almost no women in the game, do they all have to be white too because "reasons?"

actually the Dark Angels I always considered dark Skin (either that or they have some serious tans), plus there are the mongol riders and so forth, to say there is no diversity is, well not thinking, me thinks.

furthermore I have never seen GW refer to a certain skin color on any of the characters, to insinuate that would be racist in and of itself.

ever hear of the sisters of battle?

furthermore just because some artists paint their peeps white does not make it so.

Hey anyone heard of the salamanders? White scares? There is plenty of diversity I just think GW centers on the white chapters.


Salamanders (who are the only chapter really driven to protect the weak) are all ebony.

Asterios wrote:

 Las wrote:

Asterios wrote:
the imperium is as diverse as you paint it.

Yeah, everyone knows this. The problem is GW's refusal to include non-white people in their make believe space fantasy. It's weird enough that there are almost no women in the game, do they all have to be white too because "reasons?"

actually the Dark Angels I always considered dark Skin (either that or they have some serious tans), plus there are the mongol riders and so forth, to say there is no diversity is, well not thinking, me thinks.

That's a nice fist of straws you've grasped. There is a dumb lack of diversity in the official paint jobs. Seriously, you could probably count the images of non white human models in all the codeces on two hands. If that. It's juvenile.

Edit: you really wanna go there on salamanders? The dudes with coal black skin and RED PUPIL-LESS EYES?

 Las wrote:

Asterios wrote:

 Las wrote:

Asterios wrote:
the imperium is as diverse as you paint it.

Yeah, everyone knows this. The problem is GW's refusal to include non-white people in their make believe space fantasy. It's weird enough that there are almost no women in the game, do they all have to be white too because "reasons?"

actually the Dark Angels I always considered dark Skin (either that or they have some serious tans), plus there are the mongol riders and so forth, to say there is no diversity is, well not thinking, me thinks.

That's a nice fist of straws you've grasped. There is a dumb lack of diversity in the official paint jobs. Seriously, you could probably count the images of non white human models in all the codeces on two hands. It's juvenile.

Edit: you really wanna go there on salamanders? The dudes with coal black skin and RED PUPIL-LESS EYES?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/09/04 19:31:35

actually thats particular artists perspective, not GW's and as I have always said only a racist would find racism where there is none.

GW has never said a certain race is a certain color only the painters do that, its not GW's fault the minis they show are done by artists who paint their factions white, on the few heads that are shown.

I didn't bring up salamanders since I don't really think of them as human even

The Salamanders are not African-black, they are asphalt black. They are white dudes with jet-black skin and glowing red eyes because of an environmental reaction in their geneseed.

There is one Sister of Battle in one bit of artwork who is obviously Black.

The Inq from DoW. but that's entirely third-party so doesn't really count.

All that aside, I don't think GW is doing it out of maliciousness or embedded racism, I think they're just lazy. Caucasian Skin Tone paint is the default.

Asterios wrote:

 Las wrote:

Asterios wrote:

 Las wrote:

Asterios wrote:
the imperium is as diverse as you paint it.

Yeah, everyone knows this. The problem is GW's refusal to include non-white people in their make believe space fantasy. It's weird enough that there are almost no women in the game, do they all have to be white too because "reasons?"

actually the Dark Angels I always considered dark Skin (either that or they have some serious tans), plus there are the mongol riders and so forth, to say there is no diversity is, well not thinking, me thinks.

That's a nice fist of straws you've grasped. There is a dumb lack of diversity in the official paint jobs. Seriously, you could probably count the images of non white human models in all the codeces on two hands. It's juvenile.

Edit: you really wanna go there on salamanders? The dudes with coal black skin and RED PUPIL-LESS EYES?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/09/04 19:31:35

actually thats particular artists perspective, not GW's and as I have always said only a racist would find racism where there is none.

GW has never said a certain race is a certain color only the painters do that, its not GW's fault the minis they show are done by artists who paint their factions white, on the few heads that are shown.

I didn't bring up salamanders since I don't really think of them as human even

That's absurd to the point that I think you may be trolling. GW has 100% control over how their miniatures are displayed in official channels.

Do GW have a paint range for anything other than bronze and pale skin (fantastic colour ranges excepted)?

That is true.

Now there are many reasons they aren't depicting people of color. Malice and deliberate non-representation are only one of the reasons, and not very likely IMO.

To address your post -

 Las wrote:
Yeah, everyone knows this. The problem is GW's refusal to include non-white people in their make believe space fantasy. It's weird enough that there are almost no women in the game, do they all have to be white too because "reasons?"

Read more?

-answers you quite nicely. Your ignorance and craving to make up things to be offended aren't GW's fault.

I smell troll.

At this point your just standing on box ignoring everyone and demanding we agree that GW is evil because a black cadian isn't front and center in the codex. Thats juvenile.

Painting the models with darker skin tones doesn't do much, as they are sculpted with traditionally Caucasian features. I never really noticed until I painted Barker Zosa from the sedition wars box, who was sculpted specifically as a black guy. It makes a massive difference to the final piece.

It does bring back memories of the days where the Emperor was suggested to have been a certain German dictator who experimented with genetic engineering to create a master race. Maybe that's why they're all white...

 Bookwrack wrote:
To address your post -

 Las wrote:
Yeah, everyone knows this. The problem is GW's refusal to include non-white people in their make believe space fantasy. It's weird enough that there are almost no women in the game, do they all have to be white too because "reasons?"

Read more?

-answers you quite nicely. Your ignorance and craving to make up things to be offended aren't GW's fault.

Waiting for all the photos of non white human depictions from official GW sources. Show me the dazzlingly diverse demographics of the far future that you seem to think exists.

Oh boy, the "but who's the REAL racist" are starting. This ain't gonna go well.

Anyway, on topic; look, let's not pretend that GW's official art isn't lacking when it comes to diversity. People have pointed out why that is, and they're right. Unfortunately, the artists (being predominantly white) tend to think of themselves and people like them as the norm. Sure, the Sisters of Battle exist and there's female Eldar models, but otherwise everything else is male and (usually) white.

Except the orks, and even then you have to use Transformers logic to figure out why, despite being genderless, they refer to each other as "he."

That said, I think this is where the community can come in. Modelling gives players an opportunity to fix what they think is broken about official stuff, and as someone very rightly pointed out there's a lot of third party conversion kits out there that can help you in that aim. I'm certainly not planning on having an army of samey white dudes, and if that means I have to look up tips on skin painting online then so be it.

EDIT: wow, funny how a single typo can change the whole meaning of a sentence, huh?

 Las wrote:

 Bookwrack wrote:
To address your post -

 Las wrote:
Yeah, everyone knows this. The problem is GW's refusal to include non-white people in their make believe space fantasy. It's weird enough that there are almost no women in the game, do they all have to be white too because "reasons?"

Read more?

-answers you quite nicely. Your ignorance and craving to make up things to be offended aren't GW's fault.

Waiting for all the photos of non white human depictions from official GW sources. Show me the dazzlingly diverse demographics of the far future that you seem to think exists.

Read the friggin Black Library.

There are tons of characters with different skin colors in there.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Las wrote:

 Bookwrack wrote:
To address your post -

 Las wrote:
Yeah, everyone knows this. The problem is GW's refusal to include non-white people in their make believe space fantasy. It's weird enough that there are almost no women in the game, do they all have to be white too because "reasons?"

Read more?

-answers you quite nicely. Your ignorance and craving to make up things to be offended aren't GW's fault.

Waiting for all the photos of non white human depictions from official GW sources. Show me the dazzlingly diverse demographics of the far future that you seem to think exists.

Read the friggin Black Library.

There are tons of characters with different skin colors in there.

Yeah, dude, I'm not talking about the "friggin Black Library."

It's weird and creepy how defensive some on this board get when it is suggested that the game might be improved by having depictions of people who aren't TOUGH WHITE GUYS. To the point that people call you a racist for suggesting it somehow.

I should also mention that this sort of thread has popped up lots of times.. and always gets bogged down with silly arguments.

 JamesY wrote:
It does bring back memories of the days where the Emperor was suggested to have been a certain German dictator who experimented with genetic engineering to create a master race. Maybe that's why they're all white...

Tbh I thought that may have been the case...

 angelofvengeance wrote:
I should also mention that this sort of thread has popped up lots of times.. and always gets bogged down with silly arguments.

Strongly held beliefs and the anonymous-ish aggression of the internet don't mix well. :/

 Las wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Las wrote:

 Bookwrack wrote:
To address your post -

 Las wrote:
Yeah, everyone knows this. The problem is GW's refusal to include non-white people in their make believe space fantasy. It's weird enough that there are almost no women in the game, do they all have to be white too because "reasons?"

Read more?

-answers you quite nicely. Your ignorance and craving to make up things to be offended aren't GW's fault.

Waiting for all the photos of non white human depictions from official GW sources. Show me the dazzlingly diverse demographics of the far future that you seem to think exists.

Read the friggin Black Library.

There are tons of characters with different skin colors in there.

Yeah, dude, I'm not talking about the "friggin Black Library."

You do realize that the Black Library is an official GW source.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Las wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Las wrote:

 Bookwrack wrote:
To address your post -

 Las wrote:
Yeah, everyone knows this. The problem is GW's refusal to include non-white people in their make believe space fantasy. It's weird enough that there are almost no women in the game, do they all have to be white too because "reasons?"

Read more?

-answers you quite nicely. Your ignorance and craving to make up things to be offended aren't GW's fault.

Waiting for all the photos of non white human depictions from official GW sources. Show me the dazzlingly diverse demographics of the far future that you seem to think exists.

Read the friggin Black Library.

There are tons of characters with different skin colors in there.

Yeah, dude, I'm not talking about the "friggin Black Library."

You do realize that the Black Library is an official GW source.

Read my post. I'm talking photos. Official visual representation would have you believe that the imperium is 99% white males. Why? It's stupid.

So, despite overall GW sources showing a very diverse Imperium, because they haven't met your artificial quota of showing black people in photos specifically you think they are somehow racist?

Dude, just stop. Thats a ridiculous stance to take.

 Grey Templar wrote:
So, despite overall GW sources showing a very diverse Imperium, because they haven't met your artificial quota of showing black people in photos specifically you think they are somehow racist?

Dude, just stop. Thats a ridiculous stance to take.

"Hey, why are all the people in the 40k universe I see on boxes, in codeces on the website white guys?"

"There's black people in the novels gawd! Don be ridiculous! The art department are British time travellers! They've never seen a black dude before!"

It's because GW is incapable of perceiving most women and people of color, ok? Seriously, did you not know? Once you enter the Nottingham HQ, you become subject to a strange Warp effect where everyone everywhere takes on the visual appearance of a mid-40s Caucasian male. How could you not know this?

So, here you are, in a hobby where you're free to make your own art, paint your own models, create your own armies however the feth you please, and you gotta come onto a fansite and make fun of the poor, disabled artists at GW... who, incidentally, don't paint their own pictures, they actually hire people right off DeviantArt, thus extending the corruptive influence of the Warp.

All those pictures? Like, Star Trek Utopia levels of gender and race diversity. There were even a few Space Marines in wheelchairs in prominent places. Then that Warp effect kicked in (if you can't see the diversity, you've been corrupted) and turned everyone into a middle-aged white dude.

Tragic, really, and here you are, making fun of people with disabilities. The feth is wrong with you?

 Las wrote:

Asterios wrote:

 Las wrote:

Asterios wrote:

 Las wrote:

Asterios wrote:
the imperium is as diverse as you paint it.

Yeah, everyone knows this. The problem is GW's refusal to include non-white people in their make believe space fantasy. It's weird enough that there are almost no women in the game, do they all have to be white too because "reasons?"

actually the Dark Angels I always considered dark Skin (either that or they have some serious tans), plus there are the mongol riders and so forth, to say there is no diversity is, well not thinking, me thinks.

That's a nice fist of straws you've grasped. There is a dumb lack of diversity in the official paint jobs. Seriously, you could probably count the images of non white human models in all the codeces on two hands. It's juvenile.

Edit: you really wanna go there on salamanders? The dudes with coal black skin and RED PUPIL-LESS EYES?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/09/04 19:31:35

actually thats particular artists perspective, not GW's and as I have always said only a racist would find racism where there is none.

GW has never said a certain race is a certain color only the painters do that, its not GW's fault the minis they show are done by artists who paint their factions white, on the few heads that are shown.

I didn't bring up salamanders since I don't really think of them as human even

That's absurd to the point that I think you may be trolling. GW has 100% control over how their miniatures are displayed in official channels.

GW contracts artist who do the painting, GW does not tell them how to p[aint them, since no respecting artist would work that way, they just say paint me some Cadians, or some Space Marines and the artist does the that. and they do it in their perspective, how many black artists you see painting white people? or mexican people? or how many artists you see painting white people or black people or asians?

you want diversity get some black artists into the mix, problem is most black artists are into the music scene not painting. and ther in lies the problem most artists are white predominantly so yes they will influence the type of work they do. they are not familiar with painting a black person and would probably make a mockery of it if not a complete failure and i would rather they paint what they know then to offend someone painting what they do not know.

also you say I may be trolling i say you may be racist, your point?

As far as I am aware I assume just speaking for terra that almost everyone on terra(Earth) is now of one race. It would make sense. We can presume that their is more diversity among all of the starts than ever before though. Race can change if you live in a new type of area for a long period of time. For example if you and your family lived in a desert for thousands of years I am assuming your eumelanin would eventually become black.

Asterios wrote:

 Las wrote:

Asterios wrote:

 Las wrote:

Asterios wrote:

 Las wrote:

Asterios wrote:
the imperium is as diverse as you paint it.

Yeah, everyone knows this. The problem is GW's refusal to include non-white people in their make believe space fantasy. It's weird enough that there are almost no women in the game, do they all have to be white too because "reasons?"

actually the Dark Angels I always considered dark Skin (either that or they have some serious tans), plus there are the mongol riders and so forth, to say there is no diversity is, well not thinking, me thinks.

That's a nice fist of straws you've grasped. There is a dumb lack of diversity in the official paint jobs. Seriously, you could probably count the images of non white human models in all the codeces on two hands. It's juvenile.

Edit: you really wanna go there on salamanders? The dudes with coal black skin and RED PUPIL-LESS EYES?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/09/04 19:31:35

actually thats particular artists perspective, not GW's and as I have always said only a racist would find racism where there is none.

GW has never said a certain race is a certain color only the painters do that, its not GW's fault the minis they show are done by artists who paint their factions white, on the few heads that are shown.

I didn't bring up salamanders since I don't really think of them as human even

That's absurd to the point that I think you may be trolling. GW has 100% control over how their miniatures are displayed in official channels.

GW contracts artist who do the painting, GW does not tell them how to p[aint them, since no respecting artist would work that way, they just say paint me some Cadians, or some Space Marines and the artist does the that. and they do it in their perspective, how many black artists you see painting white people? or mexican people? or how many artists you see painting white people or black people or asians?

you want diversity get some black artists into the mix, problem is most black artists are into the music scene not painting. and ther in lies the problem most artists are white predominantly so yes they will influence the type of work they do. they are not familiar with painting a black person and would probably make a mockery of it if not a complete failure and i would rather they paint what they know then to offend someone painting what they do not know.

also you say I may be trolling i say you may be racist, your point?

Just because they contract their art doesn't mean they don't have total control over how their brand is portrayed. If they wanted to show a diverse range of ethnicities in their IP they could do it easily. The fact is that they don't, and I'm a racist for asking why?

What do you even think a racist is?

Woah, wait a second. Did you just say "most black artists are into the music scene?" Are you a hundred and three?

 Las wrote:

Asterios wrote:

 Las wrote:

Asterios wrote:

 Las wrote:

Asterios wrote:

 Las wrote:

Asterios wrote:
the imperium is as diverse as you paint it.

Yeah, everyone knows this. The problem is GW's refusal to include non-white people in their make believe space fantasy. It's weird enough that there are almost no women in the game, do they all have to be white too because "reasons?"

actually the Dark Angels I always considered dark Skin (either that or they have some serious tans), plus there are the mongol riders and so forth, to say there is no diversity is, well not thinking, me thinks.

That's a nice fist of straws you've grasped. There is a dumb lack of diversity in the official paint jobs. Seriously, you could probably count the images of non white human models in all the codeces on two hands. It's juvenile.

Edit: you really wanna go there on salamanders? The dudes with coal black skin and RED PUPIL-LESS EYES?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/09/04 19:31:35

actually thats particular artists perspective, not GW's and as I have always said only a racist would find racism where there is none.

GW has never said a certain race is a certain color only the painters do that, its not GW's fault the minis they show are done by artists who paint their factions white, on the few heads that are shown.

I didn't bring up salamanders since I don't really think of them as human even

That's absurd to the point that I think you may be trolling. GW has 100% control over how their miniatures are displayed in official channels.

GW contracts artist who do the painting, GW does not tell them how to p[aint them, since no respecting artist would work that way, they just say paint me some Cadians, or some Space Marines and the artist does the that. and they do it in their perspective, how many black artists you see painting white people? or mexican people? or how many artists you see painting white people or black people or asians?

you want diversity get some black artists into the mix, problem is most black artists are into the music scene not painting. and ther in lies the problem most artists are white predominantly so yes they will influence the type of work they do. they are not familiar with painting a black person and would probably make a mockery of it if not a complete failure and i would rather they paint what they know then to offend someone painting what they do not know.

also you say I may be trolling i say you may be racist, your point?

Just because they contract their art doesn't mean they don't have total control over how their brand is portrayed. If they wanted to show a diverse range of ethnicities in their IP they could do it easily. The fact is that they don't, and I'm a racist for asking why?

What do you even think a racist is?

you think they are racist because their painters do not know how to paint black people properly or any other race, would you rather they did them and had them looking like a caricature? lets face it maybe one in 100 players are black, maybe one in a thousand painters are black, what are the odds we are going to see a black SM on any product? there are a few game stores around me and I have seen only one black player in all of them, and he had no problem with there being no black SM's yet you have a problem so it makes me wonder why ? if you want diversity paint up some drawings of black SM's and present them to GW or find an accredited artist who contraacts with GW who is willing to paint a black SM and present it to GW.

if the work is not presented to GW they cannot use it.

 Las wrote:

Woah, wait a second. Did you just say "most black artists are into the music scene?" Are you a hundred and three?

how many music artists you know are black?

and how many painting artists who paint GW stuff are black?

NUFF said !

I'm getting trolled, right? Is anyone else seeing this garbage or am I having a fever dream?