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I actually like Curze's characterization, it's a little over the top but what isn't in 40k and the author does do a good job of conveying that he has some form of personality disorder that is increasingly getting worse. He's one of my favorite primarchs because his flaws are so deep and constant.

What I didn't like was that Curze is running around all over the place by himself with no one to really stop him especially in enemy territory. Don't want to get to spoiler heavy but the fact that he manages to escape almost at will is just a little to convenient for me.

Having recently completed it, I'd recommend book 3 of the beast arises series: the Emperor Expects. It was a surprisingly fun ride focused around naval combat and political intrigue on Terra. Plus one of the best cliffhangers

People are probably getting tired of hearing how good his books are, but I too have to give a nod to ADB here. Abnett is usually pretty good too and Mcneill has written a few things I've enjoyed. I've read most of the Soul Drinkers books, but they never really appealed to me despite some high praise I'd heard for them.

Bloody loved the Dark Angel books, gives enough information but leaves enough loose ends, such as Cypher's identity.

Horus Rising was also a fantastic read that wasn't completely bolter porn, "Member of a lodge?" "I can't say,"

Fear to Tread was complete grox-faeces, I chopped it up and made a paper mache base for Dante out of it The rest was burnt, waste of £12.
Legion was another bloody incredible read.

I'm a sucker for anything Imperial Guard related. Fifteen Hours by Mitchel Scanlon and Baneblade by Guy Haley were okay reads.

 TheCrusadeSmurf wrote:
Horus Rising was also a fantastic read that wasn't completely bolter porn, "Member of a lodge?" "I can't say,"

Fear to Tread was complete grox-faeces, I chopped it up and made a paper mache base for Dante out of it The rest was burnt, waste of £12.
Legion was another bloody incredible read.

Wow, and here I was thinking that Fear to Tread was the first decent piece of writing Swallow had produced :( Not great, but still worth a read.

Oh, this is a great question for discussion but as a BL fanboy I'm resisting to begin with walls and walls of books and thought on them. So, in respect for everyone else I'll just say HH is overall amazing and enjoyable BUT not everyone is into the storyline or just tired of the series now a decade old, or wants only the plot advancement like the first 5 novels gave. Fortunately BL has a reading guide as do many of the authors on their own personal websites. The Beast Arises as well is a nice new finite project.

Authors might be a way to approach hundreds of works across print, ebook or audio-only releases. Sure, the BL author pool has understandably shifted over the last few years but if you find a few you might find you trust taking a chance on their titles. For me, AD-to-the-B is always worth the chance (of buying the book), as is Guy Haley and now, Chris Wraight. Abnett still rules but isn't pumping out works like before, and even the insanely prolific work of McNeill is slowed as he began a job in L.A. last year. And for the sh$tter many have found compilations of multiple quick reads a good "tool" to have about.

Good luck with finding new BL gems and please do share if you found a new favorite.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheCrusadeSmurf wrote:
Bloody loved the Dark Angel books, gives enough information but leaves enough loose ends, such as Cypher's identity.

Horus Rising was also a fantastic read that wasn't completely bolter porn, "Member of a lodge?" "I can't say,"

Fear to Tread was complete grox-faeces, I chopped it up and made a paper mache base for Dante out of it The rest was burnt, waste of £12.
Legion was another bloody incredible read.

As frustrating as it is for some readers I know BL/GW has stated they will never reveal Cypher's identity. Never. But, should alien overlords descend from the heavens and enslave the human race they may be able to affect GW policy...maybe?

Great reads:
Ciaphas Cain- for the Emperor
Eisenhorn- Xenos
Ravenor
Shiria Calpurcia- Crossfire
Last chancers- 13th penal Legion
Fire Caste

Good reads:
Gaunts ghosts- first and only
Junktion
Salvation
Gunheads
Deathworld

Average reads:
Path of- the warrior
Yarrick- Imperial Creed
Scourge The Heretic
Ice guard

Not so good reads:
Ultramarines- Nightbringer
Inquisition War- Draco

Time wasters:
Redemption corps
Emperors mercy

Special case:
Let the Galaxy burn. -A Collection of 38 short stories that hit every level on this list.
Hive of the dead- Adventure!

Nihgtbringer was the weakest book in the Ultramarine/Iron Warriors Series, but Warriors of Ultramar very much makes up for it. You just gotta overlook Nightbringer as Nothing else than a chance to introduce the Characters and introduce one of the better sub plots in the series with Pasanius.

Nerak wrote:
Great reads:
Ciaphas Cain- for the Emperor
Eisenhorn- Xenos
Ravenor
Shiria Calpurcia- Crossfire
Last chancers- 13th penal Legion
Fire Caste

Love you.

"Tyranids, Kage,"

 Darth Bob wrote:


Have to vehemently disagree with you here. Fear to Tread, Flight of the Eisenstein, and Nemesis were all great reads.

Fear to Tread has a three paragraph description of a knocked-out Sanguinius. It's verbal masturbation. Swallow gets a semi every time he writes down an adjective.

 ChazSexington wrote:

 Darth Bob wrote:


Have to vehemently disagree with you here. Fear to Tread, Flight of the Eisenstein, and Nemesis were all great reads.

Fear to Tread has a three paragraph description of a knocked-out Sanguinius. It's verbal masturbation. Swallow gets a semi every time he writes down an adjective.

At least the pages aren't sticky Having not read the book (Fear to Tread) I can't comment on it, but three paragraphs on the description isn't necessarily a bad thing.


As for my favourite books that I can recommend:

I've only read the first four HH novels, but I can honestly recommend all four of them.

As for Gaunt's Ghosts, I've read the first two and am half way through the third, and I can honestly say the first two were fantastic, but the third seems odd, with some of the paragraphs sounding more like reports than actual descriptive fiction. In light of this, I can only recommend the first two at the moment.

Making my way through Rynn's World as well, and so far so good. So based on what I've read so far, I can recommend it.

 TheCrusadeSmurf wrote:

Nerak wrote:
Great reads:
Ciaphas Cain- for the Emperor
Eisenhorn- Xenos
Ravenor
Shiria Calpurcia- Crossfire
Last chancers- 13th penal Legion
Fire Caste

Love you.

"Tyranids, Kage,"

Thanks mate. The last chancers are one of my favorites. The end of the final one was a bit weird though and lead to much discussions.

EDIT: Iur_tae_mont, I agree. I read warriors of ultramar and dead sky black sun as well but overall I was unimpressed. Warriors of ultramar was a much better book but I still woudln't rate it any higher then average.

 IllumiNini wrote:

At least the pages aren't sticky Having not read the book (Fear to Tread) I can't comment on it, but three paragraphs on the description isn't necessarily a bad thing.


As for my favourite books that I can recommend:

I've only read the first four HH novels, but I can honestly recommend all four of them.

As for Gaunt's Ghosts, I've read the first two and am half way through the third, and I can honestly say the first two were fantastic, but the third seems odd, with some of the paragraphs sounding more like reports than actual descriptive fiction. In light of this, I can only recommend the first two at the moment.

Making my way through Rynn's World as well, and so far so good. So based on what I've read so far, I can recommend it.

I just think the writing's plainly awful. The adjectives are thrown in to reach a word count, it's like reading bachelor dissertations. However, it's obviously subjective, and if you enjoy overly verbose things, you'll like it. For me it just slows the plot to a crawl (which honestly could be a short story).

 ChazSexington wrote:
I just think the writing's plainly awful. The adjectives are thrown in to reach a word count, it's like reading bachelor dissertations. However, it's obviously subjective, and if you enjoy overly verbose things, you'll like it. For me it just slows the plot to a crawl (which honestly could be a short story).

To be honest, I'm most definitely of the opinion that there's only so much you can say before you just have to say "Screw it, I'll leave the rest to the reader's imagination." If Swallow's writing style is really as long winded as you say he is, I think it's safe to say he doesn't share this view haha.

But as you said, it's all subjective. Sometimes I don't mind a long description, but in all honest, the best descriptions I've read tend to come from setting and/or describing a setting, not an event such as a body laying unconscious.

 More Dakka wrote:


The Priest of Mars series is great, and if you never read anything else by McNeil I would suggest at least reading book 1.

Priests of Mars had some potential, as McNeill usually writes decent human characters. However, that trilogy was a mess. One of the characters loses an arm at one point, and yet fights with two weapons at the end. The Marines are running out of ammo, being forced to club with their weapons, but then they are rescued by somebody with no reason to have ammo supplies for them, and magically begin shooting again during the resultant chase scene. That series was plagued by all kinds of editing problems. Though that suggests somebody edited it, I guess, and there's no proof of that. Outside the PoM trilogy, McNeill just writes terrible Space Marines, and he has no concept of warfare. The battle scenes in his books are disjointed, messy affairs where everything happens in a vacuum,, and then magically sorts itself out at the end. If Vengeful Spirit's battle scenes are accurate, there is no need for a Siege of Terra because McNeill already murdered the entirety of the traitor legions in that book. The casualties he describes in that book are so horrifically unsustainable for a Space Marine legion that it becomes comical. The Ultramarines series is also especially bad, because often times, the things he describes the Ultramarines as doing are the exact opposite of what a successful military force would do in any given situation, which is somewhat laughable since he is supposed to be describing the most successful of all Space Marine chapters who follow the tenets of the Space War Bible. Which apparently, according to McNeill, teaches that reconnaissance forces engage the enemy whenever possible, and that improvising with explosives to deny the enemy access to transportation infrastructure is against the rules. Those two scenarios happen in the prologue of the Omnibus. Before the story even properly starts. And it is all downhill from there, lol. The Ultramarines Omnibus is best interpreted by imagining that the protagonist dies in the events of the prologue, and the rest of the novels are his fevered dreams from the restless sleep of the sarcophagus of a dreadnought.

Nick Kyme is not a good writer. There's really just no way to put it nicely. His short stories are bland, and he's offered up two of the worst novel/novellas in the Heresy Series in Promethean Sun and Vulkan Lives. Possibly more, but I gave up reading his stuff.

The worst novel in the Heresy Series has to be Ben Counter's Battle for the Abyss. It happened to be the first one I read, and it nearly turned me off to the entire series it is so awful. Anything with the Alpha Legion in it tends to be terrible too. The Alpha Legion went from one of the most intriguing Legions, to the most ridiculously awful Scooby Doo Legion. Their fluff has been irredeemably ruined, and there seems to be a contest at The Black Library between the authors who can write the worst Alpha Legion story by finding a newer and dumber way they can have secretly infiltrated something and seamlessly impersonated somebody.



Abnett hits and misses. And a lot of his work is just adapting somebody or something else. Prospero Burns, for example, is just a retelling of The Thirteenth Warrior by Michael Crichton, only with Space Wolves instead of vikings. You know, Space Wolves. A spacefaring, high-technology culture that apparently doesn't have a written language and needs a storyteller to draw sounds for them. Double Eagle is a retelling of old television WW2 fighter serials, complete with an old-timey diner where the protagonist can meet with a waitress. His offerings to the Heresy series have ranged from pretty good (Horus Rising) to mediocre (Legion, Unremembered Novel). However, Know No Fear is remarkably good, all things considered. Unlike McNeill, Abnett understands the Ultramarines, or at least how a successful military would fight wars. I'm guessing that Abnett plots out his battles to make sure that all the events interconnect, even if they happen "offscreen", rather than just writing the scenes and hoping for the best like McNeill seems to do. And the Eisenhorn series is among the better 40K novels ever published.

I like ADB most of the time, though he misses from time to time. Betrayer was a short novel stretched out to 400 pages. If you cut out the first two-thirds of that novel, it would have been a much better final product. ADB, like McNeill, struggles with battles. Events happen in a vacuum, protagonists win not because the story demonstrates a winning strategy, but because if they don't, the story ends. The characterizations suffer too, with characters like Kharn suffering from the torment of the Butchers Nails only when they are convenient to the story, and he is remarkably lucid when the author needs him to be. However, The First Heretic and Aurelian are among the better novels in the Heresy series. While the Emperor's motivations to do what he does don't really seem to add up, the story of Lorgar's fall is handled quite well, taking the most contemptible and weakest-willed of the Primarchs, and managing to make him a somewhat sympathetic character. The way he handled Chaos tricking Lorgar into betraying the Emperor and falling to Chaos was quite well done. Almost too successfully, because a lot of readers miss the subtext, even though the plot hook was lifted from a fairly famous film.

However, I think my favorite author is John French. I haven't read his Ahriman novels, but some of his short stories are great. He really captures the old-school feel of 40K, and if you've glossed over his shorts, I recommend them. They're grim and dark and often strange and usually everything 40K stories should be. French is a diamond in the rough over at TBL. He also writes Arkham Horror fiction, and that Lovecraftian influence in his writing really helps his 40K stories be so much more than the piles of bolter porn and posturing you get from most writers.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:



The worst novel in the Heresy Series has to be Ben Counter's Battle for the Abyss. It happened to be the first one I read, and it nearly turned me off to the entire series it is so awful. Anything with the Alpha Legion in it tends to be terrible too. The Alpha Legion went from one of the most intriguing Legions, to the most ridiculously awful Scooby Doo Legion. Their fluff has been irredeemably ruined, and there seems to be a contest at The Black Library between the authors who can write the worst Alpha Legion story by finding a newer and dumber way they can have secretly infiltrated something and seamlessly impersonated somebody.

I agree in part - I think Rob Sanders does them justice, but as you mention, Legion was mediocre, McNeill's stuff was atrocious and way too obvious, though I did likeThorpe's Deliverance Lost. They do suffer from some pretty bad continuity issues, especially how the Primarchs are presented and the general feel to the Alpha Legion, never mind the whole hanging around in abandoned amusement park thing they do.

I like Thorpe, but my issue with him is that he seems like the jealous father type. Somebody's written an interesting character for the Dark Angels I didn't come up with? Better kill him off in a complete sham. Or just seeming out of touch with the modern fluff, like a Company Master not being a member of the Inner Circle, when to be in a position of command in the Dark Angels- one must be a member of the Inner Circle.

 Wyzilla wrote:
I like Thorpe, but my issue with him is that he seems like the jealous father type. Somebody's written an interesting character for the Dark Angels I didn't come up with? Better kill him off in a complete sham. Or just seeming out of touch with the modern fluff, like a Company Master not being a member of the Inner Circle, when to be in a position of command in the Dark Angels- one must be a member of the Inner Circle.

Nemiel </3

Let's make the Lion reinstate the Librarius so we can kill off Nemiel. >

 ChazSexington wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
I like Thorpe, but my issue with him is that he seems like the jealous father type. Somebody's written an interesting character for the Dark Angels I didn't come up with? Better kill him off in a complete sham. Or just seeming out of touch with the modern fluff, like a Company Master not being a member of the Inner Circle, when to be in a position of command in the Dark Angels- one must be a member of the Inner Circle.

Nemiel </3

Let's make the Lion reinstate the Librarius so we can kill off Nemiel. >

"Oh wow this author who worked on the DA before me set up this awesome fight between cousins as they'll inevitably be forced against each other during the final confrontation on Caliban."

"Better kill one of 'em off"

I thought the Path of the Dark Eldar books were a great read.

Motley, Morr and Bellathonis were standouts, but those books were full of really interesting, larger-than-life characters who could be entertaining and absurd in ways that human characters simply can't without breaking tension. As someone who generally finds Space Marines extremely bland, that series was a real breath of fresh air.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
I like Thorpe, but my issue with him is that he seems like the jealous father type. Somebody's written an interesting character for the Dark Angels I didn't come up with? Better kill him off in a complete sham. Or just seeming out of touch with the modern fluff, like a Company Master not being a member of the Inner Circle, when to be in a position of command in the Dark Angels- one must be a member of the Inner Circle.

Nemiel </3

Let's make the Lion reinstate the Librarius so we can kill off Nemiel. >

"Oh wow this author who worked on the DA before me set up this awesome fight between cousins as they'll inevitably be forced against each other during the final confrontation on Caliban."

"Better kill one of 'em off"

Personally, I really hope that whoever writes the story of the Fall of Caliban has the showdown with Nemiel and Zahariel anyways, just to piss off Thorpe. Thorpe's always been fairly mediocre, but that sort of plot homicide had to be the worst thing that I've seen in 40k.

 dusara217 wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
I like Thorpe, but my issue with him is that he seems like the jealous father type. Somebody's written an interesting character for the Dark Angels I didn't come up with? Better kill him off in a complete sham. Or just seeming out of touch with the modern fluff, like a Company Master not being a member of the Inner Circle, when to be in a position of command in the Dark Angels- one must be a member of the Inner Circle.

Nemiel </3

Let's make the Lion reinstate the Librarius so we can kill off Nemiel. >

"Oh wow this author who worked on the DA before me set up this awesome fight between cousins as they'll inevitably be forced against each other during the final confrontation on Caliban."

"Better kill one of 'em off"

Personally, I really hope that whoever writes the story of the Fall of Caliban has the showdown with Nemiel and Zahariel anyways, just to piss off Thorpe. Thorpe's always been fairly mediocre, but that sort of plot homicide had to be the worst thing that I've seen in 40k.

Master of Sanctity was a good read, as was Ravenwing, but Ravenwing was fairly silly for the Second Company bringing bikes onto a small space station and while the third book was fairly solid through most of it, the ending was gak and completely forgot about the main characters.

ADB Abnett and Haley are my favorites and anything written by is mostly good.


McNeill is very hit and miss his iron warriors work is usually very good his ultramarines work is gak.

Nightlords series I thoroughly enjoyed. All 3 were solid.
I didnt enjoy the Eldar path books much though =/

Anyone know if there are stories involving the Nids or from their perspective?

 Ratius wrote:
Nightlords series I thoroughly enjoyed. All 3 were solid.
I didnt enjoy the Eldar path books much though =/

Anyone know if there are stories involving the Nids or from their perspective?

I'm 99% sure there is not from Nid's perspective. The BL authors I've interviewed (10 or 11?) have all said that for the books it's tough to try and do a story from a xenos PoV. Recently they'll done Tau and even the man Guy Haley did an ork perspective story. Nids and to a lesser extent Necrons would be tough and likely not a good read.

 Wyzilla wrote:
I'd read by authors. ADB, Dan Abnett, Andy Chambers, Gav Thorpe, and Rob Sanders typically produce excellent novels. Never pick up a Ben Counter or McNeil book. Use it as kindling for a fire.

John French also writes great books. the Ahriman series is a good read.

Gunheads from Steve Parker is pretty cool, if you like to read about IG and their run of the mill Tanks. The plot is kinda predictable (about 350 pages with prolog), but the environment and details that you can find about the operation are pretty cool. I'm a bit biased though, i like tanks It's part of the Omnibus "Hammer of the Emperor". Ice Guards, which is also in this Omnibus is also fairly decent, if you like Valhallans. Not a must read by any stretch of the imagination though.

I just could not get past the first few pages of Prospero Burns.

I've tried several times.

And Rebel Winter didn't make it past the second page.

Great reads:
Betrayer 10/10
Angel Exterminatus 9/10
Mechanicum 7/10
Word Bearers Omnibus 7/10
Night Lords series 7/10
The long Night(I love Sevatar!) 10/10
Forge of Mars Not finished yet.....
Titanicus 9/10
The last Church 10/10
The first Heretic 9/10

Mediocre stuff:
The 40k-Adeptus Mechanicus stuff 5/10
A thousand Sons 5/10
Fulgim 4/10
Cybernetica 5/10

Toiletpaper:
Battle for the Abyss 2/10
Soul Drinkers Series 2/10

Worse than Toiletpaper:
Most of the Novels from C.S. Goto 0/10-1/10