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But what about all the men and women after Armageddon? Slaughtered by Grey Knights? What about all the male Astartes killed during Abyssal Crusade?

More men have been killed in GW's fiction than women. Does that make them misandrists?

No. All are equal in 40k. Your gender will not protect you. The SoB were only killed because of their piety. If it had been Guardsmen instead, like it normally is, no-one would have batted an eyelid.
Also, what evidence is there that the SoB were doing fine anyways?
Grey Knights are less heroes than necessary evils.

The fact that the Sisters were standing against the Bloodtide and that the GK could not claim to be doing the same thing.

 Psienesis wrote:
The fact that the Sisters were standing against the Bloodtide and that the GK could not claim to be doing the same thing.

Eurgh.

Without going, again, into huge amounts of detail/debate:

We don't actually know what the "Goreflood/Bloodtide"(seemingly the thing that was corrupting the basilica's guardians/priests and even Sisters of Battle on touching the Goreflood/Bloodtide) was/is.

All we know is that SOME of the Sisters who weren't corrupted on contact with the Goreflood/Bloodtide or butchered by the Bloodletters atop the basilica walls survived, and those are the ones who were slain by the Grey Knights.

Faith: It varies between individuals. Funny, that.

As I mentioned previously, a couple additional sentences could have made all the difference.

Somehow I doubt that, seeing as how people have only recently now begun attributing the Grey Knights' actions with misogyny.


Simple fact? People hated Ward and they took every chance to piss and moan about "his" fluff(never mind that there's an entire design team which worked on these books and people that would have been over him as well).

The fact that they still take those chances when the guy no longer even works at the company is pathetic.

 Psienesis wrote:
The fact that the Sisters were standing against the Bloodtide and that the GK could not claim to be doing the same thing.

If possible, could I have an exact quote from the latest GK codex? I may change my view if it clearly says so. But my previous GK book doesn't give me that impression. Again, all a matter of opinion, but we can't clearly state as a fact that GK are misogynists. Or at least, if Bloodtide counts, Armageddon would count, making them also misandrists.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Somehow I doubt that, seeing as how people have only recently now begun attributing the Grey Knights' actions with misogyny.


Simple fact? People hated Ward and they took every chance to piss and moan about "his" fluff(never mind that there's an entire design team which worked on these books and people that would have been over him as well).

The fact that they still take those chances when the guy no longer even works at the company is pathetic.

Only now? What a selective memory you have, since that was pretty much the opinion on the "Bloodtide Incident" the day it was published. The current writing of the event has, iirc, removed mention of anointing themselves in blood and has the Sisters present, until the GK show up and win.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Somehow I doubt that, seeing as how people have only recently now begun attributing the Grey Knights' actions with misogyny.

I'm pretty sure I remember that being a thing people talked about four years ago when the book came out. That and the weird "khornate" feel of the GK's actions. In general, a very poorly executed fluff piece.

Simple fact? People hated Ward and they took every chance to piss and moan about "his" fluff(never mind that there's an entire design team which worked on these books and people that would have been over him as well).

Ward was the guy who's name was listed as the author. When that happens, guess who gets the flak?

Ward didn't get hate right away, his WD stuff and early WHFB work didn't generate much drama. It wasn't until he went overboard on the 2008 WHFB Daemons and Space Marine books that Ward-specific hate became a thing.

As for oversight, there obviously were problems there this was also the guy that changed transport capacities for Land Raiders and Drop Pods in the 5E SM Codex, and, by his own words (at Games Day 2009 IIRC) "got his knuckles wrapped" for it, since that's a fluff thing he wasn't supposed to change, but nobody apparently looked at or caught until the book had already been released (and why the change didn't carry over to the SW, GK, or BA 5E books).

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
If you say so...

But yeah. Let's just forget that the whole point of that relatively small fluff blurb is that whether it was the Adepta Sororitas or the Frater Militia or the now defunct Frateris Templar, the point was that "Grey Knights killed the faithful to shield themselves" and not "Grey Knights killed the women because they were women".

Spoken like someone that does not understand misogeny. Its not that Grey Knights killed women because they are women, its that women had to die so the men could be heroes. Women that had been doing fine on their own, and were only murdered by the "heroes" to move the story along. That's why it was a horrible.

SJ

That's literally the biggest overreaction ever. You're looking WAY too much into it.

That's how one graduates to professional victim status. It's godawful fluff to be sure, so why not make it about sexism/racism/anything so I can be offended by it, and most importantly, broadcast my offence to everyone I possibly can.

Someone made an excellent point that Matt Ward would have had his work checked before anything was published so attributing all the blame to him is rather unfair.

Again, as I noted earlier, he very obviously got things out (like the aforementioned transport capacity changes) which were never checked until after publication.

In the updates of his books, many of the more egregious fluff things that people had issues with were not reprinted or were otherwise reworded. .

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Spoken like someone that does not understand misogeny.

That seems likely.

Or did you mean 'misogyny'...? ;P

Its not that Grey Knights killed women because they are women, its that women had to die so the men could be heroes.

It's really not. It's that pious people had to die so that their sacrifice would protect others. The fact that they were women is largely irrelevant to the story.

You're reading far too much into it. The story would have been the same if they had been monks instead... just then it wouldn't have had Battle Sisters in it, and we'd all be complaining about how Battle Sisters never get mentioned in the fluff...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vaktathi wrote:
As for oversight, there obviously were problems there this was also the guy that changed transport capacities for Land Raiders and Drop Pods in the 5E SM Codex, and, by his own words (at Games Day 2009 IIRC) "got his knuckles wrapped" for it, since that's a fluff thing he wasn't supposed to change, but nobody apparently looked at or caught until the book had already been released (and why the change didn't carry over to the SW, GK, or BA 5E books).

Even for GW, I don't believe that it would be likely that a codex could go through its entire development from writing to printing without anyone else from the studio having read it...

 insaniak wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
As for oversight, there obviously were problems there this was also the guy that changed transport capacities for Land Raiders and Drop Pods in the 5E SM Codex, and, by his own words (at Games Day 2009 IIRC) "got his knuckles wrapped" for it, since that's a fluff thing he wasn't supposed to change, but nobody apparently looked at or caught until the book had already been released (and why the change didn't carry over to the SW, GK, or BA 5E books).

Even for GW, I don't believe that it would be likely that a codex could go through its entire development from writing to printing without anyone else from the studio having read it...

I'm sure someone else there read these things, but whether they cared or were in a position to do anything is another story. The 5E SM book where Ward changed the transport capacities, there's numerous other credits, but aside from Ward as author and a Sub-editor (Andrew Kenrick), everything else is pictures, illustrations, book production, hobby material, etc.

I can't find it right now, but I recall somewhere where Phil Kelly at one point (IIRC ~2009/2010-ish?) noted that codex releases were rather isolated affairs in terms of how many people actually had a hand in writing anything.