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I would not be surprised if all tau would have an off button geneticly build in by the eldar

The Eldar excel at hit and run battles where they can deploy overwhelming force and run away before reinforcements show up.

Eldar have little practice at large-scale attrition warfare, and the Tau have picked up lessons on that fighting large-scale battles with the Imperium.

The Eldar will have initial successes, but once the Tau figure out where the Eldar are coming from (remember kids that creating new webways isn't something the Eldar can do anymore), the Tau will be able to hit those positions and drive the Eldar back into their webway holes. If we're looking at a large-scale, long-term war, the Tau will be able to outlast the Eldar, if only because Tau get to have sex and reproduce whenever necessary.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
Don't tau lack any kind of high speed warp travel?

Eldar on the other hand with their gateways and populations based on giant spaceships are perhaps the most maneuverable of all the races in 40k.

Any kind of conflict fought by the tau would be entirely defensive in nature.

Indeed - they have slow Warp travel AND no FTL communications.

The Tau have now developed better warships some of which can even match Imperial Navy vessels - but trying to be defeanisve against the Eldar is a challenge in itself.

Match a Lunar class cruiser maybe, not a Battle ship or any of the big ships they possess. there yet to deploy anything on the scale of firepower a Emperor class or such can put out.

 EmpNortonII wrote:
The Eldar excel at hit and run battles where they can deploy overwhelming force and run away before reinforcements show up.

Eldar have little practice at large-scale attrition warfare, and the Tau have picked up lessons on that fighting large-scale battles with the Imperium.

The Eldar will have initial successes, but once the Tau figure out where the Eldar are coming from (remember kids that creating new webways isn't something the Eldar can do anymore), the Tau will be able to hit those positions and drive the Eldar back into their webway holes. If we're looking at a large-scale, long-term war, the Tau will be able to outlast the Eldar, if only because Tau get to have sex and reproduce whenever necessary.

Not really - The Eldar have perfected their warfare over thousands of years................They don;t fight attrition and the Tau could not dictate the terms of engagment. They are equallty likely to redirect Ork Waaarghs as fight them themselves.

They will fight on their terms - theTau have had some minor, limited engagements against the great powers of the galaxy and learnt lessons yes but warfare against the entirety of the Eldar race would be akin to fighting the Imperium or the Necron Dynasties - short, brutal and one sided. There would be nothing the Tau as a minor Empire with a small, limited military and equally small reserves could do.

It would be like Earth Force fighting the Minbari - the only way they could win is if the Eldar let them.

 EmpNortonII wrote:
The Eldar excel at hit and run battles where they can deploy overwhelming force and run away before reinforcements show up.

Eldar have little practice at large-scale attrition warfare, and the Tau have picked up lessons on that fighting large-scale battles with the Imperium.

The Eldar will have initial successes, but once the Tau figure out where the Eldar are coming from (remember kids that creating new webways isn't something the Eldar can do anymore), the Tau will be able to hit those positions and drive the Eldar back into their webway holes. If we're looking at a large-scale, long-term war, the Tau will be able to outlast the Eldar, if only because Tau get to have sex and reproduce whenever necessary.

There won't be attrition warfare if the Tau can't bring their numbers to bear. The Eldar don't need to pop in and out of webway portals to win the war; they just have to win the battles in space, which would leave the Tau septs isolated. They could then wipe them out at will.

The Eldar also don't need to land troops on the planets the way the Imperium does. They have no interest in colonizing the Tau worlds (they already have maiden worlds and it's the Exodites who do the colonizing). Plus, the Eldar would possibly have superior numbers as they can hit isolated septs with the combined power of all of their Craftworlds. The Tau worlds can't fly around in space after all.

Reproduction also wouldn't really be a factor. It's been ten thousand years since the Fall and the Eldar are still alive and kicking, with a large number of Craftworlds. I doubt this war would last long enough for Tau reproduction to be a factor.

And that's without using any doomsday weapons, such as snuffing out a few suns.

Oh and if this makes the Eldar sound OP as hell, then that's because they are. That's how they survived the last 10k years after the Fall with their numbers and with their Craftworlds isolated. We're talking about their combined power here. And 10k years of stagnation sounds less like a problem when 10k years later they're still the most advanced race (with the possible exception of the Necrons).

A real war between all the eldar and tau where they would like to exterminate each other completely would not be about attrition warfare. It would be about if the eldar would dare to use their horrible ancient weapons that could destroy planets or worse. Tau starships are no match for eldar warships, and tau don't even come close to the really nasty eldar stuff.

All of the above. The Tau space vessels amount to piloting a leaky bathtub against vessels that can turn on a dime, turn invisible, fly like dogfighters while being capital ships, and pack plasma weaponry first built to destroy Necron warships.

The Tau are laughably outclassed in space combat against a single Craftworld and its resources, let alone Corsair fleets and multiple Craftworlds.

Rest in Peace, Tau. Thanks for being the target practice!

 jhe90 wrote:
Tau might give them trouble in a ground war but the Void war goes entirely to the Eldar. and that's the important one.

True, but they apparently don't seem to care about that since they wrote orks over necrons.

Even if the Eldar DID curbstomp the Tau it'd still be a loss on their part because every casualty they suffer is a horrendous loss for their species.

And it would be sort of pointless for them too, I'm sure the tau would agree to some sort of truce, especially as the eldar don't have any planets to capture.

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:
Even if the Eldar DID curbstomp the Tau it'd still be a loss on their part because every casualty they suffer is a horrendous loss for their species.

Not for those who believe Ynnead will kill Slaanesh.

 Psienesis wrote:
The Tau are laughably outclassed in space combat against a single Craftworld and its resources, let alone Corsair fleets and multiple Craftworlds.

This. Not that the Tau have any means of finding and attacking a Craftworld, but if they did one should remember how well that worked for the IoM last time they tried - the loss of an entire Sector Fleet for no gain. Can the entire Tau Empire Navy match even a single Imperial Sector Fleet?

The Eldar would have no need to spend lives on ground battles since the Tau would quickly be left with no working starships.

 Psienesis wrote:
All of the above. The Tau space vessels amount to piloting a leaky bathtub against vessels that can turn on a dime, turn invisible, fly like dogfighters while being capital ships, and pack plasma weaponry first built to destroy Necron warships.

The Tau are laughably outclassed in space combat against a single Craftworld and its resources, let alone Corsair fleets and multiple Craftworlds.

If a single company of Space Wolves can destroy a craft world (or the Invaders chapter) it can't be all that difficult.


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 oldzoggy wrote:
A real war between all the eldar and tau where they would like to exterminate each other completely would not be about attrition warfare. It would be about if the eldar would dare to use their horrible ancient weapons that could destroy planets or worse. Tau starships are no match for eldar warships, and tau don't even come close to the really nasty eldar stuff.

Blowing up a star system is a feat the Tau have accomplished. Unlike the Eldar, they also may soon be capable of mass-producing the means. I don't think the Eldar are still capable of creating weapons of that magnitude.


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 Psienesis wrote:
All of the above. The Tau space vessels amount to piloting a leaky bathtub against vessels that can turn on a dime, turn invisible, fly like dogfighters while being capital ships, and pack plasma weaponry first built to destroy Necron warships.

They're also made out of paper mache.

Eldar vessels don't travel through the warp. On the large scale, Eldar fleets are ALSO slower than the IoM... and because they rely on the webway, they are not guaranteed to arrive in advantageous positions- or to be able to retreat if a force blocks off their entryway. They're also incredibly susceptible to mines once you figure out where they came from.

While everyone likes to point out that Eldar are master manipulators and tricksters, people forget that the Eldar also do this to each other, and since an after-war situation is imaginable, they *will* do it to each other. Meanwhile, the Tau Empire is unified. Even Farsight is still a true believer in the Greater Good, even if he doesn't trust the Ethereals. The Tau have a unified command structure which will give them a big advantage over the Eldar.

If the Tau were a bigger empire and thus had all the resources (both in manpower and other), then based on their tech, I reckon they'd have the ability to win. But such as the empires stand, all the Craft Worlds vs the Tau would almost sure result in a Tau defeat. I saw 'all Craft World' and not 'all Eldar' because there are Eldar that don't live on the Craft Worlds and, from what little I know about them, don't really use much interplanetary travel (plus they don't get along hugely well with the Craft World Eldar). As an additional note, even if just the Tau's travel capabilities were to improve (whether it's weaponry, travel speed, etc), I reckon that would significantly improve their chances because it would allow them to consolidate and focus their forces and technology a hell of a lot better, which would give them at least a solid chance of winning.

Plus I don't think the Eldar's ability to manipulate the future due to farsight isn't as powerful as people seem to think because from what I've read in this thread, people seem to think it makes them near unbeatable. I don't think it's quite that strong (even though I will admit it is a fairly strong advantage).

You say no other factions will be involved, yet that is exactly what the Eldar would do if they needed too destroy the Tau for some reason.

They'd manipulate the IoM or nurture a particular system filled with Orks till the point a huge waaagh would be on the march, with the Tau territory being the first stop.

Let alone the Eldar being able to appear at key strategic points and lay traps around their web way portals to cripple any Tau advance, let alone just hiding within it. Elder could just destroy the eco system of all the Tau planets and let them die out in theory.

The only reason tau can continue their existence in the 40k universe is plot armour.
If any of the other races, eldar included, turned their full attention to the tau, then in the span of a couple of years it would all be over.

In a standard 40k tabletop game with equal points each side, the tau can handle themselves.
In the fluff however their empire is simply too small, and their resources too limited, to play with the big boys.

Add to this that the tau are, when compared to the eldar, inept at space travel and combat and lack any psychic assistance.
This makes for a very one sided affair in the eldar's favour.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
The only reason tau can continue their existence in the 40k universe is plot armour.

This plot armour could possibly just be the result of protection by eldar some scemes. Eldar seem to like the tau for now, not including them in their plots would be strange.


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It would be really funny if the tau just came up with some special anti enemies of the eldar weapon in the near future.

[Edit] All thing the tau fight are enemies of the eldar already

 EmpNortonII wrote:
The Eldar excel at hit and run battles where they can deploy overwhelming force and run away before reinforcements show up.

Eldar have little practice at large-scale attrition warfare, and the Tau have picked up lessons on that fighting large-scale battles with the Imperium.

The Eldar will have initial successes, but once the Tau figure out where the Eldar are coming from (remember kids that creating new webways isn't something the Eldar can do anymore), the Tau will be able to hit those positions and drive the Eldar back into their webway holes. If we're looking at a large-scale, long-term war, the Tau will be able to outlast the Eldar, if only because Tau get to have sex and reproduce whenever necessary.

The Eldar have hundreds of thousands of years experience. The Eldar were fighting large scale wars long before the Tau even evolved. They have perfected the art of war in all of its aspects over millennia of warfare. Add to that the fact that Eldar Farseers are capable of predicting the future, the fact that the Tau have much slower spaceships and communications, the fact that the Tau Empire only consists of a handful of worlds which means that the Eldar likely have numerical superiority and the fact that Eldar technology is far beyond that of the Tau. It all becomes quite clear. The Dark Eldar were capable of hitting a Tau world and stripping it of all live before the Tau even knew what was happening or could send reinforcements. A war against all Eldar Craftworlds united would be much like that, except that it would happen on every Tau planet at once. There would not even be much of a war, it would be over very quickly.


The Tau are hopeful and growing whereas the more ancient powers are all declining and collapsing. But at the moment, the Tau Empire is about the size of Ultramar and just one of the many thousands of minor Xenos realms in the galaxy. They just don't have the power to take on any of the other 40k factions fluffwise.


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 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
All of the above. The Tau space vessels amount to piloting a leaky bathtub against vessels that can turn on a dime, turn invisible, fly like dogfighters while being capital ships, and pack plasma weaponry first built to destroy Necron warships.

The Tau are laughably outclassed in space combat against a single Craftworld and its resources, let alone Corsair fleets and multiple Craftworlds.

If a single company of Space Wolves can destroy a craft world (or the Invaders chapter) it can't be all that difficult.

It is. The fact that only a handful of Craftworlds have been destroyed over the millennia attests to this. A SW company destroying a craftworld is just an example of horrible fluff writing similar to kind of the stories where 5 marines conquer entire worlds yet entire chapters can't do so in the next. Nonetheless, we don't know the specifics of this fight, so the Craftworld may have already been severely weakened before the SW assault.

 EmpNortonII wrote:
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 oldzoggy wrote:
A real war between all the eldar and tau where they would like to exterminate each other completely would not be about attrition warfare. It would be about if the eldar would dare to use their horrible ancient weapons that could destroy planets or worse. Tau starships are no match for eldar warships, and tau don't even come close to the really nasty eldar stuff.

Blowing up a star system is a feat the Tau have accomplished. Unlike the Eldar, they also may soon be capable of mass-producing the means. I don't think the Eldar are still capable of creating weapons of that magnitude.

Source?

 EmpNortonII wrote:
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 Psienesis wrote:
All of the above. The Tau space vessels amount to piloting a leaky bathtub against vessels that can turn on a dime, turn invisible, fly like dogfighters while being capital ships, and pack plasma weaponry first built to destroy Necron warships.

They're also made out of paper mache.

Eldar vessels don't travel through the warp. On the large scale, Eldar fleets are ALSO slower than the IoM... and because they rely on the webway, they are not guaranteed to arrive in advantageous positions- or to be able to retreat if a force blocks off their entryway. They're also incredibly susceptible to mines once you figure out where they came from.

While everyone likes to point out that Eldar are master manipulators and tricksters, people forget that the Eldar also do this to each other, and since an after-war situation is imaginable, they *will* do it to each other. Meanwhile, the Tau Empire is unified. Even Farsight is still a true believer in the Greater Good, even if he doesn't trust the Ethereals. The Tau have a unified command structure which will give them a big advantage over the Eldar.

Yeah, the Eldar are never going to unite to wipe out the Tau, but this scenario supposes that they do. In general, Eldar are very effective at working together, while the Tau won't be able to do so in the event of a war, due to the fact the Eldar could simply hit every single Tau world at once.

This is the reason for which I voted for the Tau. The Emperor (or parts of his mind) cannot be wrong. It mentions the Eldar too!

https://youtu.be/uOapqJ_x3G0?t=158

cheers
Kahnawake

I think the remaining Eldar would even outnumber the Tau when combined, not counting the DE like the OP asks.

They have greater technology and the farseers, but their biggest weakness would be arrogance in that match up.

 EmpNortonII wrote:
The Eldar excel at hit and run battles where they can deploy overwhelming force and run away before reinforcements show up.

Eldar have little practice at large-scale attrition warfare

Eldar have fought against Orks for longer than Tau have existed, including major battles where they couldn't do hit and run tactics. And they've also fought Tyranids.

It's not their cup of tea, but that doesn't mean that they can't do it.

 EmpNortonII wrote:


Blowing up a star system is a feat the Tau have accomplished. Unlike the Eldar, they also may soon be capable of mass-producing the means. I don't think the Eldar are still capable of creating weapons of that magnitude.

As of yet the Tau are unable to mass-produce such devices. Not that it would necessarily be particularly effective against the Craftworld Eldar who don't rely on planets anyway near as much as the Tau do. The Eldar being able to destroy stars is a very potent weapon for them in this situation; not so for the Tau.

With no defences against Psychic abilities or means of countering the scrying of seers the Tau are at a considerable disadvantage. In terms of technology they are at best at parity on the ground and the Eldar are superior in space. The Eldar definitely have the advantage in this matchup.

 Iron_Captain wrote:



The Tau are hopeful and growing whereas the more ancient powers are all declining and collapsing. But at the moment, the Tau Empire is about the size of Ultramar and just one of the many thousands of minor Xenos realms in the galaxy

Ultramar consists of 11 worlds. The Tau have 19 named Septs (and probably more)- which all include multiple habitated worlds. It also doesn't include the planets of their allies.






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SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:


With no defences against Psychic abilities or means of countering the scrying of seers the Tau are at a considerable disadvantage. In terms of technology they are at best at parity on the ground and the Eldar are superior in space. The Eldar definitely have the advantage in this matchup.

They might. The Nicaussar have been part of the Tau Empire for quite some time. Ethereal understanding of the warp and psykers is greater than they let on in front of the other Castes.

I remember Eldar having the tech, through the Talismans of Vaul / Blackstone Fortresses, to detonate stars. At the very least, they can slay C'tan, which is virtually impossible.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

They might. The Nicaussar have been part of the Tau Empire for quite some time. Ethereal understanding of the warp and psykers is greater than they let on in front of the other Castes.

The Nicaussar and their abilities have never been elaborated on. It's possible they are very specialised Psykers. If I recall correctly they are also ineffective in combat which implies to me that their powers are irrelevant to fighting.

Melissia wrote:I remember Eldar having the tech, through the Talismans of Vaul / Blackstone Fortresses, to detonate stars. At the very least, they can slay C'tan, which is virtually impossible.

Also as some mentioned before in the thread "The Great Exodus" had six Eldar Craftworlds combine forces and extinguish all stars within 60 light years. They do indeed have the technology.

Why do people keep saying the Eldar can predict the future, no the unequivocally cannot, they can see the paths of the future that MAY come to pass, they then manipulate events to TRY to match the most favourable outcome, this is world's away from predicting the future with 100% accuracy, also they cannot see every eventuality, if they could they would never lose any war ever...

They'd still curb stomp the Tau however.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

Ultramar consists of 11 worlds. The Tau have 19 named Septs (and probably more)- which all include multiple habitated worlds. It also doesn't include the planets of their allies.

Wut. 11 worlds now is it. So much for the 500 worlds.

Just about any other ununited race in 40k kicks the Taus fish lips in. Only reason theyve lasted this long is because everyones got better things to do and GWs crappy fluff.

 EmpNortonII wrote:
Ultramar consists of 11 worlds. The Tau have 19 named Septs (and probably more)- which all include multiple habitated worlds. It also doesn't include the planets of their allies.

In terms of comparative scale to the rest of the races, this is next to nothing.

There is no faction in the game who would have any difficulty in beating the tau.

Just about any other ununited race in 40k kicks the Taus fish lips in.

Even sisters of battle or stormtroopers alone would probably be able to get the job done if all their forces were united.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:



The Tau are hopeful and growing whereas the more ancient powers are all declining and collapsing. But at the moment, the Tau Empire is about the size of Ultramar and just one of the many thousands of minor Xenos realms in the galaxy

Ultramar consists of 11 worlds. The Tau have 19 named Septs (and probably more)- which all include multiple habitated worlds. It also doesn't include the planets of their allies.

Wow. Hear that? Nineteen systems.

Even if you discount the craftworlds that refuse to have anything to do with the others or have been 'lost', they outnumber the Tau (there are twenty three known craftworlds, if you ignore the lost-but-not-destroyed ones, Dorhai and the Black Library)

They certainly out-tech them. Need I remind you that Eldar have man-portable point-to-point teleporters? Perfect, impossible-to-intercept FTL communications? Lossless squad communications with no possibility of the signal being scrambled or blocked outside the deployment of a few specific abilities that the Tau do not have access to?

Even if you discount prognostication and the Eldars' sheer speed, they have far more advantages than the Tau can even hope to bring to the table.

Some day, if they're left alone to breed and breed and develop, the Tau may threaten the other major players in the galaxy.

The only reason the Eldar aren't ruling the galaxy outright is because they don't have enough bodies to use all their technology.