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I'm always a little annoyed that 3+ armor is the most common FMC armor, and the most common skyfire options are ap4.

Do you mean that most skyfire cant strip FMCs armor away? They stil have to take a grounding test and if they jink its snap shots next turn. Skyfire with ap2-3 would really ruin fmcs days.
They arent that OP anyway imo.

casvalremdeikun,
Take a closer look at the wording between this option and the Space Marine option to select Terminator armour
Notice a missing word between them, one has the word 'only' when it tells us what options are available....

Wrong forum for this debate though, when the Codex comes out it could be a good topic to raise on you make da call, I've got a few twists on why it might not be required but we will need the final codex before we can say for certain.

Tau are seeming more and more underwhelming. A lot of people were expecting the Gouda treatment.

JinxDragon wrote:
casvalremdeikun,
Take a closer look at the wording between this option and the Space Marine option to select Terminator armour
Notice a missing word between them, one has the word 'only' when it tells us what options are available....

Wrong forum for this debate though, when the Codex comes out it could be a good topic to raise on you make da call, I've got a few twists on why it might not be required but we will need the final codex before we can say for certain.

The limitation is the only way the whole thing makes sense. Otherwise, the Coldstar would be able to take four additional Ranged Weapons and/or, if not for the "up to" six drones and subsystems.

Of course craziness occurs, but that is beside the point as dissecting a Rule is not about finding loopholes to exploit but just how it ends up operating as written. No player should ever argue that an oversight of a single word, one important as it creates a Restriction if applied correctly, is enough to ignore the clear intent put forth by formatting used within the option outside of pointless debate. It is nothing more then an anomaly worth highlighting, a mistake that comes from having inconsistent and poor quality editing that we laugh able while passing around some questionable substances, and then quickly ignore as we go back to playing it how it obviously is meant to be played.

If they had just included the word 'only' it would all be a pointless debate from a Rule as Written perspective, on other forum when it is time, but the lack of it is.. interesting and possibly hilarious if the codex doesn't fix it elsewhere...

 BlaxicanX wrote:
> People unironically want to have a 2+/4++ flyer.

This is why the empathy for Tau player is always so low.

I don't think the 3+ is the concern, more the T4. With iridium (+1T) it would not be instantly killed by everything. I think even grounding tests are S8 (IIRC) so a hit from a fething lasgun could kill this thing in one hit.

Grounding checks are S9.

I have to say, I'm very interested in this. I hope the coldstar suit provides T5, but other than that, it could be a very fun unit.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Tau are seeming more and more underwhelming. A lot of people were expecting the Gouda treatment.

Really the book is riding on the changes of the support systems and signature systems now.

Likely disruption pods are just a 5++. The buffmander isn't going to be around. target lock might only be 1 model split fire. That leaves a lot of expectations on the systems to pick up the slack, and if they don't meet expectations the book is going to just be mid tier short of a tricky build or two (usually involving allies BS).

The coldstar wont see the table in proper games. Even at T5 2+ save practically any flyer based army has lascannons/brightlances that can drop it. Not to mention the easy access to rerolls that everyone has.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Grounding checks are S9.

Ah, even worse. I really hope they took that into consideration. Especially as the upgrade isn't exactly cheap.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Grounding checks are S9.

Ah, even worse. I really hope they took that into consideration. Especially as the upgrade isn't exactly cheap.

GW doesn't play test or do market research. BUT YOUR COMMANDER CAN FLY NOW GEE WILLIKERS BUY! BUY! BUY!

Enforcer armour is probably signature. Which the coldstar does not have access to, and even if it does, T5 and 2+ wont stop it from eating dirt. Plus it can only take the HY burst cannon and missile pod, why in the blue hell would you waste 150+pts on that?

To be fair, I think it would be even more logic breaking if the guy was able to survive going full speed, losing control, and crashing.

Not the best from game play perspective, but it'll be pretty cool.

EDIT: And it's good to see GW thinking outside of the box.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
> People unironically want to have a 2+/4++ flyer.

This is why the empathy for Tau player is always so low.

That said, I do kind of wonder why they didn't just make him jet-pack infantry, then give him a special rule that states that he's only hit on snap-shots.

EDIT- Because they obviously want him to be immune to melee and templates as well. Duh.

Problem is, like the riptide was at the time, it's a somewhat new concept to the game that has to be shoehorned in because the rules didn't fit it exactly as the design intends. If they made a new unit type like Flyer Infantry there's a bit that they could do there like the razorwing flocks as well, maybe vespids would become more viable. Certainly easier in the long run.

 Crazyterran wrote:


EDIT: And it's good to see GW thinking outside of the box.

Yeah.

Honestly I think that the last several codexes (those of the current generation -- Necrons+) have been very creative, and very fluffy, and quite internally balanced with the exception of Eldar. GW has been doing a really good job of keeping them balanced (with each other, not older codexes) internally and externally, while at the same time trying out a whole slew of new ideas. Which is very difficult to do.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Tau are seeming more and more underwhelming. A lot of people were expecting the Gouda treatment.

I think a key factor in this perception is that of the 'power' codexes released, only Tau has really received new units.

The strength of the Eldar, SM, Dark Angel, and Necron armies lie in their formations and their 'Decurion' mega-formations, not in the units themselves (aside from the Wraithknight). None of them really received any new units so there wasn't much opportunity for disappointment regarding new rules.

Tau however have received a huge amount of new units which we first get to see in a vacuum, lacking the important context that comes from their interaction with the codex and its special rules. This can easily lead us to assume the units themselves are poor, but we're viewing them without all of the benefits they would usually receive. This is true of any army, but is perhaps even more significant with Tau as they are focused around synergy more than most.

That said, I don't personally find any of the choices we've seen so far underwhelming - they just perform tasks that the Tau army already performs. But I'm not going to complain about that, it just offers us more options over what particular units we want to use to fill certain roles in our armies.

 Ravenous D wrote:
Likely disruption pods are just a 5++. The buffmander isn't going to be around. target lock might only be 1 model split fire. That leaves a lot of expectations on the systems to pick up the slack, and if they don't meet expectations the book is going to just be mid tier short of a tricky build or two (usually involving allies BS).

What makes you think disruption pods are going to change or even were that important in the first place? Target lock is bought for a model, not a unit currently, why would this change? why do you think the current support and signature systems are bad anyway or need improving?
What do the top codices have which makes them so good that this Tau release is missing? Only formations which we haven't seen yet for Tau.

Many support systems ARE bad and need improving.

Some are cool and nice, but some are bad.

When was the last time you saw an ATS?
CFDS?
Positional Relay?
VRT?
Shield generator on anything beyond a tank commander?

As for tank systems-ATS. ARS, flechette, PDTR? even the decoy launcher isn't seen as its intended user (jets) are unplayable.

There are alot of options who are unused, as they are horrible. tons of things that need to be brought up to par.

Why do so many people keep writing the codex off already when we literally know about 5% of what will actually be in the codex? It's getting beyond ridiculous now. If Tau have a lateral change they will still be in a better place than two thirds of the current codices, and there's nothing to suggest anything either way. This stuff always happens when a new codex is released and it is almost always WRONG because everyone is jumping around based on tiny shreds of evidence that don't paint the whole picture. Just wait for the damned codex before making a judgement on how good it will be.

@BoomWolf

I agree with the rest of your selections, but a handful of points for Hit and Run is really good. Even with crappy Tau Initiative - hint, it's solved by taking Drones - it is still an incredibly popular upgrade. Even just a recent example for you; Ghostkeels adore this upgrade.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Tau are seeming more and more underwhelming. A lot of people were expecting the Gouda treatment.

Really the book is riding on the changes of the support systems and signature systems now.

Like seriously, how is this sentence even logical in the slightest? How is the codex 'riding on changes to support systems and signature systems' when you've seen 4 out of a total of 28+ units in the codex? Have you seen the formations? Their Decurion-style detachment? What any of the other 24 units are like?

People might want to consider that any new units and codexes released now will be written for 8th, not 7th. We're looking at end of edition/transition books and models, which have a poor fit for the current rules, yet will have a different synergy next year. Just keep in mind that 7th is about to hit the age 6th was replaced at.

SJ

People might want to consider that any new units and codexes released now will be written for 8th, not 7th

IG players were told that when they codex came out and how did that work?

Makumba wrote:

People might want to consider that any new units and codexes released now will be written for 8th, not 7th

IG players were told that when they codex came out and how did that work?

Working as intended.

SJ

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Grounding checks are S9.

Ah, even worse. I really hope they took that into consideration. Especially as the upgrade isn't exactly cheap.

GW doesn't play test or do market research. BUT YOUR COMMANDER CAN FLY NOW GEE WILLIKERS BUY! BUY! BUY!

Enforcer armour is probably signature. Which the coldstar does not have access to, and even if it does, T5 and 2+ wont stop it from eating dirt. Plus it can only take the HY burst cannon and missile pod, why in the blue hell would you waste 150+pts on that?

Main thing I'm happy about, is since the codex is not OP then the players playing tau will be good players, not those cant think for themselves, roll for themselves, slower eldar players. *cough*

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Grounding checks are S9.

Ah, even worse. I really hope they took that into consideration. Especially as the upgrade isn't exactly cheap.

GW doesn't play test or do market research. BUT YOUR COMMANDER CAN FLY NOW GEE WILLIKERS BUY! BUY! BUY!

Enforcer armour is probably signature. Which the coldstar does not have access to, and even if it does, T5 and 2+ wont stop it from eating dirt. Plus it can only take the HY burst cannon and missile pod, why in the blue hell would you waste 150+pts on that?

Main thing I'm happy about, is since the codex is not OP then the players playing tau will be good players, not those cant think for themselves, roll for themselves, slower eldar players. *cough*

[MOD EDIT - RULE #1 - ALPHARIUS]

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

Makumba wrote:

People might want to consider that any new units and codexes released now will be written for 8th, not 7th

IG players were told that when they codex came out and how did that work?

Working as intended.

SJ

So GW made IG suck through a whole edition on purpose.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Grounding checks are S9.

Ah, even worse. I really hope they took that into consideration. Especially as the upgrade isn't exactly cheap.

GW doesn't play test or do market research. BUT YOUR COMMANDER CAN FLY NOW GEE WILLIKERS BUY! BUY! BUY!

Enforcer armour is probably signature. Which the coldstar does not have access to, and even if it does, T5 and 2+ wont stop it from eating dirt. Plus it can only take the HY burst cannon and missile pod, why in the blue hell would you waste 150+pts on that?

Main thing I'm happy about, is since the codex is not OP then the players playing tau will be good players, not those cant think for themselves, roll for themselves, slower eldar players. *cough*

Could be worse, you could have played and liked the Eldar models and built like 4000+ of them. But stopped when the 7th ed codex hit because people complain incessantly and it's fairly annoying and takes more fun out of the game than a horde of scat bikes ever could.

So someone over at Tau Online noticed some interesting wording on the Coldstar unit. If the unit retains its IC status, it could then join a unit of gun drones which should allow it to swoop (as all the drones are removed) over the enemy and when it stops drop 12 drones into your opponents backfield. If he can take a drone controller, it would be crazy scary. Also what if we can take missile drones in squads now. That would be just crazy.

I'm glad people are thinking on ways of how to possibly use this guy within the army, rather then focusing on what it can do itself.

 Jayden63 wrote:
So someone over at Tau Online noticed some interesting wording on the Coldstar unit. If the unit retains its IC status, it could then join a unit of gun drones which should allow it to swoop (as all the drones are removed) over the enemy and when it stops drop 12 drones into your opponents backfield. If he can take a drone controller, it would be crazy scary. Also what if we can take missile drones in squads now. That would be just crazy.

I'm glad people are thinking on ways of how to possibly use this guy within the army, rather then focusing on what it can do itself.

He should be able to get the Drone controller, unless they change it in the new codex, so there could potentially be one use for the Coldstar suited commander. I'm afraid that this is just too circumstantial, though. A swooping commander is a dead commander

I still can't see any use for the suit here, any other ideas?

Please stick to the topic, rather than baiting other posters

Giant Mecha Battlesuit

Is a FMC...

IM OUT GW, YOU WIN