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 FlingitNow wrote:
So what S and AP are these Moondraken attacks made at and do I get an additional pile in? After all it is not a HoW according to you.

If the rule is triggered for Thunderous Assault after the D3 then it is triggered for Moondrakkan.

Again you need to show that you can benefit from Moondraken multiple times contra to the special rules rules. Notice you didn't answer the question so you are accepting Moondraken is d3 HoW attacks like its rules say and not some new special Moondraken attack?

 FlingitNow wrote:
Again you need to show that you can benefit from Moondraken multiple times contra to the special rules rules. Notice you didn't answer the question so you are accepting Moondraken is d3 HoW attacks like its rules say and not some new special Moondraken attack?

The trigger is exhausted after you choose 2 or the D3 (by expending the "instead of one").

If the trigger is not exhausted then the logic of Moondrakkan can still be applied.

Cool where are the rules for expending "instead of 1"?

How it works is you make a HoW with your bike both rules trigger at the same moment. The player who's turn it is then gets to choose which one to resolve first. Say he chooses Moondraken. If he rolls a 2-3 on Moondraken then when he resolves Thunderous Assault nothing happens. If you roll a 1 when you resolve Thunderous Assault it says turn that 1 into a 2. Nothing gives you permission to resolve either rule multiple times or to not resolve either rule. You must resolve each rule exactly once.

If you read the rules they effect diffect aspects of the HoW process, as per my previous post in this thread they both work together to give you D3 hits, each hit generating 2 attacks. no conflict.

 Iron_Warden wrote:
If you read the rules they effect diffect aspects of the HoW process, as per my previous post in this thread they both work together to give you D3 hits, each hit generating 2 attacks. no conflict.

I can also see that argument as stated in my first post. I'm just not 100% convinced HoW attacks and HoW hits are 2 distinct things.

 FlingitNow wrote:

 Iron_Warden wrote:
If you read the rules they effect diffect aspects of the HoW process, as per my previous post in this thread they both work together to give you D3 hits, each hit generating 2 attacks. no conflict.

I can also see that argument as stated in my first post. I'm just not 100% convinced HoW attacks and HoW hits are 2 distinct things.

yea, me too. but reading through all the rules, it seems a deliberate choice of words. Plus the HoW rule itself talks about HoW attack generating Hits which hit automatically. So I think its RAI and RAW.

Hammer of Wrath

"If a model with this special rule ends its charge move in base or hull contact with an enemy model, it makes one additional Attack that hits automatically and is resolved at the model’s unmodified Strength with AP-. This Attack does not benefit from any of the model’s special rules (such as Furious Charge, Rending etc.). This Attack is resolved during the Fight sub-phase at the Initiative 10 step, but does not grant the model an additional Pile In move. "

Moondrakkan

"Moondrakkan is a Space Marine bike that makes D3 Hammer of Wrath attacks instead of 1."

Thunderous Assault

Models from this formation that make HoW attacks make 2 hits instead of one if there are at least 5 models in their unit."


Therefore, RAW, given there are 4 other guys in his unit, Khan will get 2,4,or 6 hits.

I'll break it down for you...

1. The HoW rule says they get one attack, and notes that each attack hits automatically. Therefore the word Attack does not equal the word hit.

2. Moondraken modifies the 1 Attack to D3 attacks.

3. Thunderous Assault modifies each attack to make TWO hits.


Not very hard to figure out if you have all three rules in one spot, huh...



And they are at STR 5 unless I'm missing something somewhere that modifies it more than the White Scars CT giving +1 S


Fun note- in the HoW rules, it says "This Attack does not benefit from any of the model’s special rules (such as Furious Charge, Rending etc.)", so technically the "Born in the Saddle" CT (which gives WS +1S How) doesn't work since Chapter Tactics refer to themselves as "Special Rules".... But I assume that Codex rules overriding BRB rules supersedes this.