USAF moves to allow concealed carry on bases.

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**LordofHats**

d-usa wrote:
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/01/24/fbi-data-belies-air-force-claim-that-open-carry-stops-shooters.html?ESRC=family.nl

FBI data on the number of active shootings thwarted by armed citizens appears to contradict an Air Force argument for authorizing off-duty airman to open-carry and conceal-carry weapons while on base.

In a reminder to commanders on Wednesday, Maj. Keith Quick, an Air Force Security Forces Integrated Defense action officer said national data analyzed by the Air Force showed that "many [active-shooter incidents] ended without police intervention because there was somebody there who had a concealed carry permit or somebody interdicted the active shooter."

But the data, which the Air Force said came from the FBI, states that only 5 of the 160 active-shooter incidents between 2000 and 2013 -- or 3.1 percent -- ended "after armed individuals who were not law enforcement personnel exchanged gunfire with the shooters."

The FBI report can be found here. An Air Force spokeswoman on Friday said the officer may have used other data, which officials are now trying to identify.

And the actual report:

https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2014/september/fbi-releases-study-on-active-shooter-incidents/pdfs/a-study-of-active-shooter-incidents-in-the-u.s.-between-2000-and-2013

In 5 incidents (3.1%), the shooting ended after armed individuals who were not law
enforcement personnel exchanged gunfire with the shooters. In these incidents, 3 shooters
were killed, 1 was wounded, and 1 committed suicide.

Unarmed individuals have a better success rate:

In 21 incidents (13.1%), the situation ended after unarmed citizens safely and successfully
restrained the shooter. In 2 of those incidents,24 3 off-duty law enforcement
officers were present and assisted.

You know the irony of the timing is that I just got done talking with some fellows about Michael A. Bellesiles, aka, the guy who made a bunch of gak up and lied about numbers to push his gun agenda

We also spent a few minutes talking about the idea that history repeats itself

**Col. Dash**

Stats are all fine and good until you are in a situation like many of the shootings of the past where a private concealed carry would have stopped the bad guy. They happen every day, they just rarely make the news. If playing the odds game I will hedge in whatever give me the advantage on the chance that number does come up. Carrying concealed doesn't hurt anyone and it isn't anyone's business. The fact they force law abiding people to be disarmed in these areas is a travesty of justice. No one has the right to take away your ability to defend yourself.

**Kilkrazy**

Not allowed to wear a weapon with military uniform?

**Breotan**

Kilkrazy wrote:
Not allowed to wear a weapon with military uniform?

Sure you are, but it has to be done in accordance with existing regulations. Usually a pistol holster and ammo pouches on a utility belt. Before this new regulation, you had to be authorized to carry your weapon on duty such as Guard duty or being a member of the Military Police.

**Ensis Ferrae**

Well, to be fair, each branch handles those regs differently.

I know in the army, while deployed, a lot of guys who were issued pistols wore them in a holster attached directly to their belt (a la, cop style), or they had a thigh holster, or wore a shoulder holster. Although, in the case of the shoulder holster, that may just be a Cav/aviation thing

Plus, because in a standard unit all pistols are the same type/color, etc. uniformity isn't an issue.... IF personal carry becomes a thing, how many pink Walthers or Glocks will we see peeking from around the uniform? How many different firearms will we see?

**Col. Dash**

Concealed is still concealed. You wont see many big pistols for that reason and for reasons of utility. I would have a rough time doing my job if I had a pistol and a holster getting in the way when in small spaces or lugging stuff around. Plus you have the issue of a lot of airmen take their tops off indoors or when they are doing labor, so realistically, any holster for them has to be one of those completely covering cell phone looking holsters. I am less concerned about carrying in uniform and more jazzed about getting to keep it in my car instead of having to leave it two states away while at drill

**Kilkrazy**

Breotan wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:
Not allowed to wear a weapon with military uniform?

Sure you are, but it has to be done in accordance with existing regulations. Usually a pistol holster and ammo pouches on a utility belt. Before this new regulation, you had to be authorized to carry your weapon on duty such as Guard duty or being a member of the Military Police.

...

As I understand the original topic, the soldiers will now be allowed to carry pistols in accordance with new regulations that allow their CO to grant permission.

**Breotan**

Kilkrazy wrote:
Breotan wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:
Not allowed to wear a weapon with military uniform?

Sure you are, but it has to be done in accordance with existing regulations. Usually a pistol holster and ammo pouches on a utility belt. Before this new regulation, you had to be authorized to carry your weapon on duty such as Guard duty or being a member of the Military Police.

...

As I understand the original topic, the soldiers will now be allowed to carry pistols in accordance with new regulations that allow their CO to grant permission.

I expect that "carrying" a personal weapon while in uniform would still follow all existing regulations. It just wouldn't be a service issued holster or weapon.

**d-usa**

Breotan wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:
Breotan wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:
Not allowed to wear a weapon with military uniform?

Sure you are, but it has to be done in accordance with existing regulations. Usually a pistol holster and ammo pouches on a utility belt. Before this new regulation, you had to be authorized to carry your weapon on duty such as Guard duty or being a member of the Military Police.

...

As I understand the original topic, the soldiers will now be allowed to carry pistols in accordance with new regulations that allow their CO to grant permission.

I expect that "carrying" a personal weapon while in uniform would still follow all existing regulations. It just wouldn't be a service issued holster or weapon.

I'm guessing that there would probably be regulations as to what kind of holster can be used. So maybe something like "Level 1 or Level 2 retention holster, this color or material, thigh holster or belt holster", maybe even something stating that only all black polymer guns can be carried? I would imagine that they would still try to keep a certain uniformity to how everyone looks.

**Ensis Ferrae**

d-usa wrote:

I'm guessing that there would probably be regulations as to what kind of holster can be used. So maybe something like "Level 1 or Level 2 retention holster, this color or material, thigh holster or belt holster", maybe even something stating that only all black polymer guns can be carried? I would imagine that they would still try to keep a certain uniformity to how everyone looks.

I could also see something come up to the effect of "you can carry in your vehicle and off base, but once you have arrived to your duty location, a POW must be secured in the POV, or secured in the unit arms room until completion of daily duties"

**Dreadclaw69**

Bullockist wrote:
Civillians in a shopping mall are another kettle of fish...probably rotten fish...shooting each other in a confused barrel of who shot who first.

These the "streets will run red with blood" pronouncements are always funny, especially as they are almost always ill founded.

**Col. Dash**

Its a concealed permit. It cant be visible. There will be no uniform cases so troops can look the same. There has been no mention of allowing open carry on post anywhere for any branch outside of official duty and issued weapons.

**Ahtman**

Dreadclaw69 wrote:
These the "streets will run red with blood" pronouncements are always funny, especially as they are almost always ill founded.

Eh, it is the same fabulism as those that think a firearm makes things automatically safer. Neither is a very good position.