Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
A refugee from genocide, of course is hoping for a better life. It would be a syllogism to suppose that everyone hoping for a better life is a refugee from genocide.

"You don't have to like like a refugee." Tom Petty.

Indeed, Mr. Petty. Indeed.

 notprop wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
It's important to remember there are various types of migrants, most of who have proper legal status and procedures to deal with them; refugees, asylum seekers, foreign workers and foreign spouses.

It is only the economic migrant who has left his country for the chance of getting a better life somewhere else, who has no legal right to be considered for accomodation in a country. Sadly, most of the migrants in Calais seem to be this type.

But until they identify themselves as refugees to the proper authorities then they will be classed as illegal immigrants. Which of course they should do in the first EU state they enter. I'm afraid the French Government really do themselves and the French people by allowing this debacle to go on for so long. Round them up and process them, let the residents of Calais have the security of their town back.

No Reason for the PM to apologise for calling a bunch of illegal immigrants a "bunch of immigrants". Usual boring non-news that takes up far too much of the media space.

I don't think the French government can do that, not without risking its support. The immigrants would of course resist, and I think forcefully rounding them up would not sit well with the French left.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 notprop wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
It's important to remember there are various types of migrants, most of who have proper legal status and procedures to deal with them; refugees, asylum seekers, foreign workers and foreign spouses.

It is only the economic migrant who has left his country for the chance of getting a better life somewhere else, who has no legal right to be considered for accomodation in a country. Sadly, most of the migrants in Calais seem to be this type.

But until they identify themselves as refugees to the proper authorities then they will be classed as illegal immigrants. Which of course they should do in the first EU state they enter. I'm afraid the French Government really do themselves and the French people by allowing this debacle to go on for so long. Round them up and process them, let the residents of Calais have the security of their town back.

No Reason for the PM to apologise for calling a bunch of illegal immigrants a "bunch of immigrants". Usual boring non-news that takes up far too much of the media space.

I don't think the French government can do that, not without risking its support. The immigrants would of course resist, and I think forcefully rounding them up would not sit well with the French left.

Well to be honest the people of Calais have had to put up with this for over a decade, the attacks on ports get bigger, a camp of 2000 is now by some counts near 7000....

The border is now pretty hard to breach, more refugees come on a regular basis and tension/desperation is high.
Something needs to be done before a trucker is killed though, as that will trigger bad voodoo.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
But...
They are a bunch of migrants, right? I mean, they are trying to move to a different country, so that makes them migrants. And there is a large group of them at Calais, so that makes them a bunch, right?
What is the problem?

There is no problem unless you want a problem.

What other collective nouns could we use for these particular migrants? A 'horde' maybe, allowing for what happens in Europe now a 'rapegang' might possibly not be too far from the truth.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 godardc wrote:
Euh... Is "a bunch of migrants" negative in any way ?
I mean they ARE migrants...

Bunch is below 'group' (of people) but above 'gang' (of hooligans) or 'swarm' (of insects) in a league table of possible terms that might be applied to crowds of people.

So it is slightly negative, but not really very much, and the effort spent by Labour on this issue is a thorough waste. Most British people probably are horrified by the scenes of the Calais migrants trying to gate-crash on to trains, lorries and ferries.

I don't think this will help Labour, its the wrong cause to back. The Calais camps are not popular with the British public, and Labours love fvro them is further from the pulse of the nation than Camerons disdain.

There is also good reason for this. France isn't exactly a despotic regime or war torn country that people need to escape from it, the people ijn the Calais camp stopped being refugees when they came to western Europe.

There is a secondary issue though. Labour beleive that Cameron only made the so called "offensive" comment as a 'dead cat'. A dead cat is apparently whan you say sdomething outrageuos to take attention away from other issues, Labour is claiming the comments are calculated to offend to draw attention away from Google's tax returns.

Yet labour leapt all over those comments instead of simply pointing them out showing their disapproval and then going back on to press the government on their mismanaged efforts to get tax out of large corporations. What we have are papers full of labour people making statements about how offensive Cameron was.

The current labour leaders are very poorly judging what the public want if they think harping on about Trident and immigrants is going to get them anywhere.

The sad thing is that Cameron accused Corbyn of doing something for anyone but the British public, and the causes he's constantly backing rather give that impression. Not that Cameron is doing anything great for the wider public, but you expect it of a Tory. When they can bash Labour because their leader keeps bringing up nuclear disarmament, shared ownership of the Falklands and taking more migrants, it's a bit of a worry.

The fact hard left actavists are inciting is a big problem, things are pretty tense as it is, no one needs to add kerosine to a fire.

Its not helping the migrants just ups the ante with police etc. Last thing that place needs is more conflict.

And on corbyn,bad move, there not a so welcome issue, a good percentage do not want them getting asylum. Polls are pretty leaning heavily to no.

Falklands not even up for debate. They want to be uk by 99% margin, if that's not a mandate, what is?

He seems out of touch.

 Orlanth wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
But...
They are a bunch of migrants, right? I mean, they are trying to move to a different country, so that makes them migrants. And there is a large group of them at Calais, so that makes them a bunch, right?
What is the problem?

There is no problem unless you want a problem.

What other collective nouns could we use for these particular migrants? A 'horde' maybe, allowing for what happens in Europe now a 'rapegang' might possibly not be too far from the truth.

Here's a cool thought: what if we stop treating them as a monolithic entity and start accepting that they're people with differing motivations, goals, and ethics to one another?

Oh, what am I saying? That wouldn't let us call over 7000 people gang rapists based on their ethnicity, and we can't have that now, can we?

Found on a pro Calais group. Few bad apples in that barrel. Its a blog entery.


https://exampl7154.wordpress.com/2016/01/13/fourth-day-of-giving-safety-behind-doors/

If you read down, you find the chunk on rape in the camp.