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 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Nurgle Armies are still decent because raising the toughness to 5 or 6 across the board is HUGE in terms of survivability. You should have seen the look on my friend's face when he realized that his Guardsmen may get 100 shots off against my Plague marines, but hit on a 4+, wound on a 6+, I get a 3+ armor save against it, and then a 5+ feel no pain. 100 dice later not a single Plague marine dropped.

Phew! Glad to hear. I knew grandfather Nurgle wouldn't let his faithful down, he loves em too much

it's fitting that the god of stagnation and disease would be the last one standing in terms of play-ability.

I'm still having good success with my Iron Warriors in 40k. I use a bunch of forgeworld to get around the main codex's current shortcomings including a Sicaran, vindicator laser destroyer and Typhon.

Nurgle seems to do okay still, my kdk army is not bad either but feels out classed by space wolves when I play them.

I'm also focusing mostly on building and painting right now, it would be great if I could field my army without a cultist tax, so far I'm trying to push being unbound despite my friends frowning upon its use.

Nurgle usually holds out across the editions because +1 Initiative or Attack is highly dependent on the Melee of the edition, while Tzeentch changes his gimmick every two editions. +1 Toughness though is always useful since it makes space marines into mini-ogryns for a fraction of the cost.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Nurgle usually holds out across the editions because +1 Initiative or Attack is highly dependent on the Melee of the edition, while Tzeentch changes his gimmick every two editions. +1 Toughness though is always useful since it makes space marines into mini-ogryns for a fraction of the cost.

It's really in character though for Tzeentch's Mark to be forever changing its effect, since Tzeentch himself can never make up his mind from one second to the next!

Indeed but it seems Tzeentch angered the RNG or something, since they've been getting progressively worse.

In 3rd edition Thousand Sons were flat out immune to bolter shots instead of having a 4++ and didn't face a Sorceror Tax. I'd prefer that over this.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Indeed but it seems Tzeentch angered the RNG or something, since they've been getting progressively worse.

In 3rd edition Thousand Sons were flat out immune to bolter shots instead of having a 4++ and didn't face a Sorceror Tax. I'd prefer that over this.

Nah, Tzeentch IS the RNG God, his plan just involved screwing himself over for reasons he hasn't planned out yet!

[MOD EDIT - RULE #1 - ALPHARIUS]

ERJAK wrote:
[MOD EDIT - RULE #1 - ALPHARIUS]

Must be a south pole elf.

Anyways I was thinking of dabbling into a demon army, mainly tzeentch, I have some stuff from my khorne army that could cross over, but I only have a few pieces so it would really be like starting a new army which I don't think the wife would appreciate...

I've added a lot to my CSM collection the last year, and I really do enjoy playing them. Winning isn't my main goal, having fun is, but my friends are very competitive and it would be nice to put them in their place from time to time.

Either way I guess my only real option is to play unbound, and build / paint as much of my collection as possible.

I'm switching my Alpha Legion to 30k. I can beat newbies, 'Nids, and Orks with my CSMs, but against people who know what their and my army can do, I get turned into metallic blue paste.

I'm adding FW stuff to give more of a fight and at the same time get stuff that could be played in 30k. Thank the dark gods that NL look the same in 40 as they did in 30k

As a hobbyist I agree completely. The model range is in what has to be the worst state of any army that actually still has a codex on the shelf. Every single form of infantry you can buy for them except Raptors is dated and needs an update at this point. But Games Workshop updated chaos once back in 2012, and they thought "How about some dinosaurs?". Well thanks for the dinosaurs, GW (I guess) but we're still stuck with infantry made out of resin, almost entirely centered around one plastic kit that you released god knows when with marines that are smaller than human models, not that I really expect them to fix that... Still. Aside from the raptors, there isn't one unit of infantry that Chaos can put down that doesn't look like gak without a conversion (I don't count the cultists as a release if you don't buy Dark Vengeance. Maybe they could come out with an actual kit instead of a blister of 5 mono-pose figures, but maybe they could come out with a plastic kit for Thousand Sons. Or Berserkers, even. They're in plastic but look even worse than the current Thousand Sons resin upgrade pack. Damn this was a lot to put in parenthesis...)

From a hobbyist standpoint, the CSM range is just pure frustration and simply can't recommend it.


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HoundsofDemos wrote:
it's fitting that the god of stagnation and disease would be the last one standing in terms of play-ability.

Oh here, have an exalt

I really want to use forgeworld stuff but my friends think it will open a box that can't be closed and the plastic crack will flow.

To play Chaos as a faction, you have to abuse the living hell out of everything at your disposal.

This includes Invisibility, Daemon Allies whenever possible, Daemon Factory as allies and FW Super Heavies like the Typhon and Kytan. And whenever possible, ofc, just dont play Chaos.

No CSM codex doesn't mean no daemonkin codex.

DaPino wrote:
No CSM codex doesn't mean no daemonkin codex.

I actually don't believe that any other Daemonkin codex will come, if I have to be perfectly honest. The Khorne Daemonkin book made sense in the terms of AoS releases and the fact that they wanted to get a lot of Khorne across the desk. In terms of lore, it also makes sense that a war-hungry band of khornates roams across the galaxy to maim, burn and kill everything in their path. They're the most simpleminded of the Chaos followers, and Khorne is the most straight forward of the gods.

However, I have a hard time imagining a band of Nurgle worshippers roaming around in the same manner - Or Tzeentch for that matter. I think the Khorne Daemonkin was just a codex that sounded cool at the head-office in the peek of Khorne glory and they threw it out there. I wouldn't count on more of the Daemonkin books myself. I sure don't.

It's a great codex for sure .

 Dozer Blades wrote:
It's a great codex for sure .

No, it's not. While it can be fun to play, it's still a half-baked toilet break level of effort.

At its best, it's nothing more than 'Codex: Gorepack with FnP sometimes thrown in'. It still fixed none of the biggest issues the Chaos Marine half especially has to deal with.

Kdk is decent but out classed by space wolves.

The lack of 2+ save options while on juggernaut, plus thunder wolves being 5 points more than a juggernaught and providing +1 strength in addition simply just out classes Chaos lords.

A wolf lord can be vastly better than a juggernaught lord for nearly the same points sadly.

The only edge a Chaos lord can get is the decapitating blow on relic weapon or axe of khorne which may kill the wolf lord if your lucky. Sometimes getting through that storm shield is just impossible.

I don't mean to complain about the dex but a wolf lord on thunder wolf and Chaos lord on juggernaut are the same class and utility of unit however one is much better than the other.

Also, is it me or are the weapons available in KDK not nearly as good as the Axe Of Blind Fury?

Crispy78 wrote:
Also, is it me or are the weapons available in KDK not nearly as good as the Axe Of Blind Fury?

Not just you, and Experiment/Konrax nailed it in their descriptions. Just a lazy attempt at a book, but still one I gladly play since it's at least passable, if mediocre.

 Konrax wrote:
Kdk is decent but out classed by space wolves.

The lack of 2+ save options while on juggernaut, plus thunder wolves being 5 points more than a juggernaught and providing +1 strength in addition simply just out classes Chaos lords.

A wolf lord can be vastly better than a juggernaught lord for nearly the same points sadly.

The only edge a Chaos lord can get is the decapitating blow on relic weapon or axe of khorne which may kill the wolf lord if your lucky. Sometimes getting through that storm shield is just impossible.

I don't mean to complain about the dex but a wolf lord on thunder wolf and Chaos lord on juggernaut are the same class and utility of unit however one is much better than the other.

Well what did you expect? You're Chaos. Chaos is supposed to lose to SM. If you try to go toe-to-toe as CSM vs SM you're going to have a Bad Time.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 Konrax wrote:
Kdk is decent but out classed by space wolves.

The lack of 2+ save options while on juggernaut, plus thunder wolves being 5 points more than a juggernaught and providing +1 strength in addition simply just out classes Chaos lords.

A wolf lord can be vastly better than a juggernaught lord for nearly the same points sadly.

The only edge a Chaos lord can get is the decapitating blow on relic weapon or axe of khorne which may kill the wolf lord if your lucky. Sometimes getting through that storm shield is just impossible.

I don't mean to complain about the dex but a wolf lord on thunder wolf and Chaos lord on juggernaut are the same class and utility of unit however one is much better than the other.

Well what did you expect? You're Chaos. Chaos is supposed to lose to SM. If you try to go toe-to-toe as CSM vs SM you're going to have a Bad Time.

Not sure if Serious, or trying to be sarcastic...

But if serious, here in lies the problem with the mentality of the game.

Bad guys within lore = Auto loss is the absolute worst, basement dweller fanboy idea ever conceived, but hey, I guess GW is for it. Because little Timmy's SMs still stomp CSM point for point. But what ever the case, big men needing to believe that Good vs Evil should always award players who play good with victories over their counterparts obviously aren't grown up enough to play a Dice game.

Play more Eldar I suppose.

Almond finished my knight... Then the csm are dooone. And will probably only play30k from now on..

 GoliothOnline wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 Konrax wrote:
Kdk is decent but out classed by space wolves.

The lack of 2+ save options while on juggernaut, plus thunder wolves being 5 points more than a juggernaught and providing +1 strength in addition simply just out classes Chaos lords.

A wolf lord can be vastly better than a juggernaught lord for nearly the same points sadly.

The only edge a Chaos lord can get is the decapitating blow on relic weapon or axe of khorne which may kill the wolf lord if your lucky. Sometimes getting through that storm shield is just impossible.

I don't mean to complain about the dex but a wolf lord on thunder wolf and Chaos lord on juggernaut are the same class and utility of unit however one is much better than the other.

Well what did you expect? You're Chaos. Chaos is supposed to lose to SM. If you try to go toe-to-toe as CSM vs SM you're going to have a Bad Time.

Not sure if Serious, or trying to be sarcastic...

But if serious, here in lies the problem with the mentality of the game.

Bad guys within lore = Auto loss is the absolute worst, basement dweller fanboy idea ever conceived, but hey, I guess GW is for it. Because little Timmy's SMs still stomp CSM point for point. But what ever the case, big men needing to believe that Good vs Evil should always award players who play good with victories over their counterparts obviously aren't grown up enough to play a Dice game.

Play more Eldar I suppose.

Well, there was that one time we actually won the EoT campaign!

...And then Loyalist players cried foul and we've been a soulless, hollow carcass of rank fecal matter ever since.

They should change the ITC to Chaos only (CSM and suppliments) with no forgeworld options!

Might actually see some interesting lists and player skill come through.

30k looks interesting as well but it should honestly be the stepping stone between aos and 40k because its marine vs marine... How is it supposed to be a game more oriented to vetrans?

There is more diversity in all the 40k codexs in the troop section than you see in most of 30k... I just don't get the appeal

Getting rid of forgeworld makes as much sense as banning codex eldar.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
It's a great codex for sure .

No, it's not. While it can be fun to play, it's still a half-baked toilet break level of effort.

At its best, it's nothing more than 'Codex: Gorepack with FnP sometimes thrown in'. It still fixed none of the biggest issues the Chaos Marine half especially has to deal with.

Well I like it a lot and have won all my games with this codex including some tournaments.

 Konrax wrote:
They should change the ITC to Chaos only (CSM and suppliments) with no forgeworld options!

Might actually see some interesting lists and player skill come through.

30k looks interesting as well but it should honestly be the stepping stone between aos and 40k because its marine vs marine... How is it supposed to be a game more oriented to vetrans?

There is more diversity in all the 40k codexs in the troop section than you see in most of 30k... I just don't get the appeal

That will never happen - Reecius is a big advocate of Forge World. I think all the major events in the US allow its use too.

So let me see if I got this straight, Konrax...:

Your friends know you play CSM, arguably the worst codex available right now (except maybe SoB). They don't want you to play Unbound attachments (even though Unbound doesn't get Objective Secured). They don't want you to use Forgeworld to plug in the gaps in your codex either.

Maybe the problem is the people you are playing? Both Unbound and Forgeworld are allowable... and if any codex needs the extra support from both of those, it's CSM.

Maybe you need to put your foot down and say "Look, either I'm going to use FW or Unbound lists, and you can either just deal with that or we won't play anymore."

If it isn't fun, you should either stop playing or change something... and if others are telling you what you can or cannot play, that seems like a problem, when it's perfectly permissible.