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Quit comparing 2 overly powerful armies, if you want an idea of how powerful Tau is compare them to orcs or something, have fun finding equivalents then

Martel732 wrote:
At the end of the day, the games against Necrons are more interactive. With Tau, I'm just picking up the models the opponent points to, and I don't get to anything meaningful in return.

So it's the Tau players fault that you are not utilizing tactics properly to get meaningful results out of your battles? You do realize that there have been countless threads on this pointing out lots of good tactics to handle Riptides, and for some reason you keep ignoring it. I get it Blood Angels are not exactly the cream of the crop when it comes to Space Marines, instead of demanding Tau players cater to your book why not go out of your way to add stuff to your army to help with the problem. Adapt and overcome instead of constantly making unrealistic demands that will never happen to begin with, constructive thinking goes a long way.

Tau are way more powerful than Necrons. Tabling is the ultimate trump card in this game, and Necrons have basically zero chance of doing that.

Martel732 wrote:
Tau are way more powerful than Necrons. Tabling is the ultimate trump card in this game, and Necrons have basically zero chance of doing that.

Completely false but you can keep thinking that. Necrons are just as powerful as Tau just in different ways and they have the capability to table opponents just as easily.

 gmaleron wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
At the end of the day, the games against Necrons are more interactive. With Tau, I'm just picking up the models the opponent points to, and I don't get to anything meaningful in return.

So it's the Tau players fault that you are not utilizing tactics properly to get meaningful results out of your battles? You do realize that there have been countless threads on this pointing out lots of good tactics to handle Riptides, and for some reason you keep ignoring it. I get it Blood Angels are not exactly the cream of the crop when it comes to Space Marines, instead of demanding Tau players cater to your book why not go out of your way to add stuff to your army to help with the problem. Adapt and overcome instead of constantly making unrealistic demands that will never happen to begin with, constructive thinking goes a long way.

Because the stuff that might help in the specific case of Tau backfires against the field of opponents in general. Especially now with Wulfen. Any chance I'd ever play an Angel's fury list went down the toilet with the Wulfen release.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gmaleron wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Tau are way more powerful than Necrons. Tabling is the ultimate trump card in this game, and Necrons have basically zero chance of doing that.

Completely false but you can keep thinking that. Necrons are just as powerful as Tau just in different ways and contabl opponents just as easily.

It's not false at all. The decurion at least can backfire on objective based tables. When only Tau models are left on the table, objectives don't matter at all.

Seriously? Grav cannons would obliterate riptides and would actually be pretty decent against wulfen especially with the grav amp giving rerolls, a 4+ to wound is not terrible by any means. Plasma would be great against wulfen as well along with melta so I fail to see the sense of your argument there.

And no it is false, even on objective based tables. Necrons can bring a hell of a lot of firepower to bear along with their insane durability. Can't take objectives if you cannot get to them in the first place or already dead.

You know what i kind of smile about? People laughed at me when I showed up to the table with Tau Empire all the way until the 6E codex.

I understood, but i played it anyways and didn't even demand that their armies get nerfed when facing mine.

Reavas wrote:
Quit comparing 2 overly powerful armies, if you want an idea of how powerful Tau is compare them to orcs or something, have fun finding equivalents then

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 gmaleron wrote:
Seriously? Grav cannons would obliterate riptides and would actually be pretty decent against wulfen especially with the grav amp giving rerolls, a 4+ to wound is not terrible by any means. Plasma would be great against wulfen as well along with melta so I fail to see the sense of your argument there.

Actually, grav cannons don't obliterate Riptides, particularly if they have their toe in a ruins. Angel's Fury doesn't have grav cannons. BA dont' have access to grav cannons at all. Most Angel's fury lists won't have much plasma or melta either.

Reavas wrote:

Reavas wrote:
Quit comparing 2 overly powerful armies, if you want an idea of how powerful Tau is compare them to orcs or something, have fun finding equivalents then

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

At this point you're comparing a brand new book to an older book which goes a long way in explaining why one is so much more powerful than the other.

Seriously who's really complaining about shooty armies right now on the forum?

This thread is just another indirect shot at ITC nerfing Tau, OP can play it off however he wants. Who knows they might remove some of the nerfs later on down the line, but in the mean time if you don't want to play the ITC format then DON'T.

Martel732 wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
Seriously? Grav cannons would obliterate riptides and would actually be pretty decent against wulfen especially with the grav amp giving rerolls, a 4+ to wound is not terrible by any means. Plasma would be great against wulfen as well along with melta so I fail to see the sense of your argument there.

Actually, grav cannons don't obliterate Riptides, particularly if they have their toe in a ruins. Angel's Fury doesn't have grav cannons. BA dont' have access to grav cannons at all. Most Angel's fury lists won't have much plasma or melta either.

They do obliterate riptides trust me I've been on the receiving end of that more times than I care to count anyone who thinks otherwise clearly is reaching. And guess what if you don't have them add them to your army, Imperial armies are one of the strongest in the game thanks to the tactical flexibility.

 gmaleron wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
Seriously? Grav cannons would obliterate riptides and would actually be pretty decent against wulfen especially with the grav amp giving rerolls, a 4+ to wound is not terrible by any means. Plasma would be great against wulfen as well along with melta so I fail to see the sense of your argument there.

Actually, grav cannons don't obliterate Riptides, particularly if they have their toe in a ruins. Angel's Fury doesn't have grav cannons. BA dont' have access to grav cannons at all. Most Angel's fury lists won't have much plasma or melta either.

They do obliterate riptides trust me I've been on the receiving end of that more times than I care to count anyone who thinks otherwise clearly is reaching. And guess what if you don't have them add them to your army, Imperial armies are one of the strongest in the game thanks to the tactical flexibility.

They are not reaching; do the math. It's gross and disgusting how the most OP gun in the game still can't reliably bring down Riptides. You need triple the points cost of grav centurions of the Riptide they are targeting to bring it down reliably.

I disagree wholeheartedly, being a Tau player every time a squad of three Grav Centurions has gotten in range my Riptide has been killed it's not a statistically impossible as you make it out to be. It's even worse with the mechanicum kataphrons to put out a whopping 18 shots that can be twin linked at 30 inch range for 165 points.

 gmaleron wrote:
I disagree wholeheartedly, being a Tau player every time a squad of three Grav Centurions has gotten in range my Riptide has been killed it's not a statistically impossible as you make it out to be. It's even worse with the mechanicum kataphrons to put out a whopping 18 shots that can be twin linked at 30 inch range for 165 points.

Kataphrons can be pretty cool.

 gmaleron wrote:
I disagree wholeheartedly, being a Tau player every time a squad of three Grav Centurions has gotten in range my Riptide has been killed it's not a statistically impossible as you make it out to be. It's even worse with the mechanicum kataphrons to put out a whopping 18 shots that can be twin linked at 30 inch range for 165 points.

The Kataphrons are glass cannons that frequently get off one shot and then die horribly. The game is much different when you are playing against models that can actually be hurt.

Was it a Centstar or just 3 generic centurions? Because without ignores cover, centurion's chances of downing a Riptide, or anything else tough, go way down.

It's always a Centstar, everyone at my FLGS always plays very strong or competitive lists. And they are glass cannons however if they can bring down a riptide in a single turn of shooting then they already got their points back. And I agree it is different when a unit can be killed and a riptide can be killed really easily when there are multiple units of these on the board courtesy of them being a cheap troops choice.

 gmaleron wrote:
It's always a Centstar, everyone at my FLGS always plays very strong or competitive lists. And they are glass cannons however if they can bring down a riptide in a single turn of shooting then they already got their points back.

Your Riptide can fire outside their range, so I don't see how they ever get the shots off.

Invisibility is a crutch that works vs the Tau, but you can only protect a few units, and they can murder everything else.

Martel732 wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
It's always a Centstar, everyone at my FLGS always plays very strong or competitive lists. And they are glass cannons however if they can bring down a riptide in a single turn of shooting then they already got their points back.

Your Riptide can fire outside their range, so I don't see how they ever get the shots off.

Invisibility is a crutch that works vs the Tau, but you can only protect a few units, and they can murder everything else.

1. Gate of Infinity

2. Centstar is really the only thing that needs to be protected while they gate around wiping your army out left and right. Usually they'll reserve the rest of their army, to contest objectives later on and hopefully by them the Star should have wiped out much of your fire power.

I was talking about the cataphron things with the range comment.

I know centstars use gate of infinity.

Martel732 wrote:
I was talking about the cataphron things with the range comment.

I know centstars use gate of infinity.

You should kinda read up on the top tourney meta and army lists dude. Geoff "InControl" Robinson's top LVO list contains 3 drop pods from the BA formation, he put the gravtaphons in them so he can take out priority targets and it doesn't matter if they die the next time as long as they make their points back. And Grav cannon is same range as the SMS and 6" shorter than the burst cannon, its not too much of a struggle than compared to fighting against Eldar scatter bikes.

I can careless if ITC get rid of most of the Tau nerfs, as long as they keep the Drone Factory nerf. Drama threads like this are meaningless, and gets annoying.

 CKO wrote:
Players who do not know the rules get blown off the table by Tau because they only know the shooting phase and, they try to out shoot Tau.

What kind of knowledge could help a footslogging ork army against a tau gunline in 6-th edition? If you can answer this without "get 100% blos in the middle of the board", i'm intrigued.
And before you say that footslogging ork army is not valid from the get go, well, it used to be valid before 6-th tau and eldar codexes that triggered the shooting escalation.
Maybe you SHOULD play it out first and than make such statements? You know, we like challenges here Prove your point with action. Do a batrep of how you can 'know the rules' and outplay an average tau player running something like a footslogging horde yourself.

Shooting armies get hate because they're both boring and easy to win with.

I'm talking Necrons, Eldar, Tau, and razorback spam Gladius marines.

They plunk their models down on the table, then proceed to not move at all as they sit and pick targets.

Guard was unpopular for the exact same reason when they were strong. Gunlines just suck, and people have to accept that if they play a pure gunline with 100% highly durable/highly mobile long ranged weaponry, nobody's going to want to play them.

The guard are a shooting phase army and no one really hates them.

Martel732 wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
Seriously? Grav cannons would obliterate riptides and would actually be pretty decent against wulfen especially with the grav amp giving rerolls, a 4+ to wound is not terrible by any means. Plasma would be great against wulfen as well along with melta so I fail to see the sense of your argument there.

Actually, grav cannons don't obliterate Riptides, particularly if they have their toe in a ruins. Angel's Fury doesn't have grav cannons. BA dont' have access to grav cannons at all. Most Angel's fury lists won't have much plasma or melta either.

Dear lord just stop. It has already been proven that grav DOES destroy riptides. Jeez.

 tau tse tung wrote:
The guard are a shooting phase army and no one really hates them.

That was very different in 5th though.

notredameguy10 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
Seriously? Grav cannons would obliterate riptides and would actually be pretty decent against wulfen especially with the grav amp giving rerolls, a 4+ to wound is not terrible by any means. Plasma would be great against wulfen as well along with melta so I fail to see the sense of your argument there.

Actually, grav cannons don't obliterate Riptides, particularly if they have their toe in a ruins. Angel's Fury doesn't have grav cannons. BA dont' have access to grav cannons at all. Most Angel's fury lists won't have much plasma or melta either.

Dear lord just stop. It has already been proven that grav DOES destroy riptides. Jeez.

Proven by whom? The anti-math league? With a toe in ruins and the fnp upgrade, it takes 15 grav wounds to kill a riptide. That's every shot from a centurion squad hitting and wounding. That's not very likely. It gets worse with the nova shield. So we are talking psyker buffs or another squad being necessary. That's nuts on a model as cheap as the riptide. And for what it does, the riptide is super cheap.

That explains the hate.

Martel732 wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
Seriously? Grav cannons would obliterate riptides and would actually be pretty decent against wulfen especially with the grav amp giving rerolls, a 4+ to wound is not terrible by any means. Plasma would be great against wulfen as well along with melta so I fail to see the sense of your argument there.

Actually, grav cannons don't obliterate Riptides, particularly if they have their toe in a ruins. Angel's Fury doesn't have grav cannons. BA dont' have access to grav cannons at all. Most Angel's fury lists won't have much plasma or melta either.

Dear lord just stop. It has already been proven that grav DOES destroy riptides. Jeez.

Proven by whom? The anti-math league? With a toe in ruins and the fnp upgrade, it takes 15 grav wounds to kill a riptide. That's every shot from a centurion squad hitting and wounding. That's not very likely. It gets worse with the nova shield. So we are talking psyker buffs or another squad being necessary. That's nuts on a model as cheap as the riptide. And for what it does, the riptide is super cheap.

That explains the hate.

Lol so let me get this straight. 4 grav cents, which are the same price as a riptide, will kill it in one single round of shooting and you are saying thats not an effective method. Sure lol

Martel732 wrote:
Because the stuff that might help in the specific case of Tau backfires against the field of opponents in general. Especially now with Wulfen. Any chance I'd ever play an Angel's fury list went down the toilet with the Wulfen release.

Really? Stormstrike missiles, TL-Multimelta, and TL-AC are all going to wreck Wulfen. You can easily kill 4-5 in one turn of shooting.

The Tacs themselves can stick on about ~5 wounds between Flamer, Heavy Flamer, Bolt Pistols, and charging. The Wulfen themselves are going to kill about ~2 Tacs. After this the whole thing devolves into a slapfight where the Tacs have Objective Secured, the Wulfen don't, and they fulfill their job of winning VPs and absorbing damage so your elite units can act elsewhere.

Going back to Riptides, 10x Tacs in a flying assault vehicle don't need Grav Cannons, they can kill a Riptide with a Vet Sarge Thunderhammer and Krak Grenades. And obviously they are a lot safer in CC. Why wouldn't you take advantage of that?

Krak grenades can't be counted on to do anything to a riptide.