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I'm thinking moving it back to 4 for 10 was probably the sweet spot.

4 per 10, including the banner (reprice other undead units to include their banners as well), is a decent starting point. Please keep an ear out (more to event feedback rather than individual screaming if you're getting a lot of the latter) for whether that ends up seeming a bit high, even when skeletons are fielded in larger units, as I think it might.

And I would still cap max unit size, though, and bump those chaos warriors up to 3 per five regardless of armament.

I've noticed the updated stuff, and it looks better to me. I do have a question on your wording of the extra cost for the undead banners: is that one extra point for the entire unit, or one extra point per choice?

Ie, if I field a unit of 30 skeletons with the banner, is that 10 points (3 x 3 points per 10, +1 for the banner), or is that 12 points (3 x (3+1 for the banner) per t10)?

If you mean the former, then you may want to drop zombies back down to 1 per 5 and remove the note about why they're 2 for 10, as it wouldn't be relevant.

If you mean the latter, then you might want to make that a little more overt in the wording.

Its +1 for the entire unit. Also check out the online builder, it will show the math as well if there is any confusion

www.louisvillewargaming.com/AzyrBuilder.html

wait nevermind...

Ok, the army totals are adding correctly, though the line by line descriptions of unit selections describes the undead banners as per selection, rather than per unit. Ie, 10 grave guard (two selections) with the banner adds 5 points to your total at the top, but the grave guard line down below says they're 6 points.

Since it's +1 point for the entire unit, and not per selection, you should remove the note in the document about zombies being 2 for 10 because of the banner, because that no loner applies and will just cause confusion.


Alright, let me give it a quick test drive with my standard small game list in other comps (comes out to around 1450 in SDK, but that doesn't charge for formations).

The normal list is:

Given the general descriptions of Azyr's game sizes, I'd expect this list fit in at about the 'small battle' size, so...

Total: 31. A bit on the strict side, as I'm used to a little breathing room with this list in small games, not cutting things back. Still, it's around where I'd expect.

How about something using the skeletons that have been so contentious?

In big games (so 50 points), I'd add a fleshed out Arkhan formation to the above list, so, adding to the above...

55. And that's without fleshing out the spirit hosts or black knights any further. Feels a bit off to me, but I think that's more because my sense of 'big game' is twice the size of a 'small game', so I was conceptually aiming for 60 points, anyway.

Hrm. That all looks alright, except for the black knights. Issues with black knights:

The builder doesn't list with and without banner separately for them, are they charged as per other units?

4 points per 5 black knights, especially if you pay extra for their banner, is too much. Black knights have only a single attack with their lances, they don't hit hard at all (even on the charge they're kind of 'meh'). Mostly all they've got going for them is tankiness, and at the present points costs both spirit hosts and hexwraiths do that better while also contributing more offensively, even without the banner, thanks to their ethereal save. Also, please be aware that the most recent rules for black knights have removed their 'ethereal steeds' rule, so their maneuverability is also more limited than it was, and much more limited than that of hexwraiths, who have fly outright.

There is a significant gap between the quality of hexwraiths and black knights that IMO warrants a points difference between them (especially if you're charging separately for the banner), so the question is whether hexwraiths should be pricier or black knights cheaper. IMO, the lackluster offense of the black knight, combined with the fact that their rules were downgraded recently, makes 3/5 black knights (+1 for the banner) the better option of the two.


Also, you might want to consider upping the points cost of spirit hosts. 9 ethereal wounds (and 18 attacks that cause mortals on 6's to hit, even if they don't do much otherwise) makes them a stellar wall, especially when combined with the maneuverability conferred by their decent speed and flight. I might be wrong about this, but it's something to consider and keep an eye out for.


But otherwise, the system looks decent and I like the builder. Points are more or less in the right place for undead, at least in terms of internal balance (I don't have enough familiarity with other factions to do external balance by eyeball), even if I do chafe ate extra points for the banners, though at one per unit it's not needlessly prohibitive any longer.


I do have one other question, this time about starter box formations and formations in the campaign books. If players could get you copies of those rules, would you consider adding costs for them to your system?

I've been trying to keep up with all the formations. Its not easy lol but yes if I'm missing something that I don't have a source for I would add it.

Private message sent.

I'll get these added as soon as I can.

Some other stuff sent.

I have a couple of questions regarding character progression, specifically for the Tomb King.

He is listed as a hybrid between figher and warlord, which capital territory ability does he get? Do I get to choose?

I assume he starts as a one-star? Do I get all of the listed abilities for the one-star at start, or do I aquire them through spending build points on my character?

If I have to spend build points on my character to gain any abilities he is initially weaker than other one-star heroes, isn't that contrary to what would be expected from a conqueror to be?

In the chapter structure it says that in the epilogue, a character that has made five advances may level up. Does this equate to spending five build points on the character in the end phase after battles?

How does one go about going on quests? Do you just decide that "Hey, I'm going on a quest right now"? Or do you do so in the battle phase instead of playing a normal battle?

Are you limited to playing on battle per battle phase?

I think this looks really cool, and I'm itching to try it out with my buddies =)

*He is listed as a hybrid between fighter and warlord, which capital ability does he get? Do I get to choose?"

p.30 - under Step 2 - If given the choice of multiples, you must choose one.

"I assume he starts as a one-star"
Yes all characters start as a one star with nothing but what the progression chart gives you.

"Do I get all of the listed abilities for the one-star at start"
No. For your example, tomb kings start with Bravery 10, 5 wounds, movement 4, 5+ save. Additionally you choose either the dynastic blade with shield or the great blade.

At one star you start with inspiring presence. After that you must earn build points to purchase the one star abilities.

"If I have to spend build points on my character to gain any abilities, he is initially weaker than other one-star heroes"

Yes he is weaker than a normal one-star hero. He is a champion, not yet a hero. He gains power as the campaign progresses. He starts out as a step above a trooper. He is marked for potential greatness but must achieve that greatness through campaigning.

"In the chapter structure it says that in the epilogue, a character that has made five advances may level up. Does this equate to spending five build points on the character in the end phase after battles?"

Yes it means that he has had five or more points spent on him and may now advance to the next level.

"How does one go about going on quests"
When you are ready, and your chart says you may go on one, you choose to go on the quest and it takes the place of your normal battle. Appendix B p. 186 discusses this.

"Are you limited to playing one battle per battle phase?"
Each phase is one battle. For our campaign, a phase is one week so we have one battle per week.

Thank you for your questions Solaris. I hope that could help clear them up.

If you're on facebook, we have a group at www.facebook.com/groups/AzyrEmpires

We are currently discussing the next appendix: city fight along with the lord castellent being added.

Cheers!

With the announcement of likely GW "official" points, I have put this project on hold and will not be putting anymore energy into it until I have seen whatever these points are and if they are worth me continuing to push for GW games or find something else.

And with the clarification, azyr will continue.

And we just updated the stormcast eternals with the new units

Lord Celestant on Stardrake - 15 pts
Templar on Stardrake - 13 pts
All four cavalry types - 4 pts for 1 model

Formations added as well.

Good stuff ! Can't wait to try this comp!

Updated tonight with the new forge world monstrous arcana entries.

Azyr Empires digital tools update. The army comp builder. Templated from the online version at www.louisvillewargaming.com/AzyrBuilder.aspx

This adds the ability to copy data to the clipboard to paste onto a word pad of your choice.

2.09 released with Godbeasts formations.

Additionally some point modifications:
Celestant Prime raised to 7 points
Liberators raised to 3 pts for 5
Chaos warriors flat 3 pts for 5
Blood warriors raised 3 pts for 5

Azyr Empires Appendix H released tonight. Includes rules for city battles as well as Time of War for Beasts and Shadow realms. Added in Lord Castellant and Plague Priest progression paths.

www.louisvillewargaming.com/Resources.aspx

Auticus, first, thank you for all your hard work. Of the comp systems I've seen, I like yours the best because of its ease of use. I intend to get some games going soon, and may be providing feedback (detailed, of course) if I see any issues.

Second, I believe you mean you raised the points of Liberators to 3/5? I know the SEs have silly names, but I'm not tracking any Vindicators...

Also, in the azyrcomp pdf document, the Drakesworn Templar is missing under the SE section. (it's in the online builder) Likewise, the Bloodwrack Medusa (or whatever they're calling her) is not listed under the Dark Elves.

Yes the Liberators were raised to 3 pts for 5 models from 2 pts for 5 models. Sorry my bad i'll edit that.

I will also look up the missing items. I appreciate your feedback.

If you are not on the azyr empires facebook group, consider joining. We're getting some good feedback and as our campaign starts in June, I want the doc to be as solid as it can be (stormvermin and chameleons are also coming up to 3 points for 5)

We are currently evaluating all of the 3 for 5 models right now to make sure the too cheap models are brought up correctly.

Thanks for clarifying. I'll let you know if I think that makes them too expensive

Just for clarity's sake, the Bloodwrack Shrine is there (3 points), what is missing is the profile for just the medusa.

I may take a look at the FB group, but I'm already in sooooo many gaming groups on FB...I won't make any promises XD

The raise is due to a few things. Mainly elven elites are 3 pts for 5 models, and chaos warriors / blood warriors were 2 for 5 models. This was wrong.

However, Liberators were almost the same raw score as chaos warriors, so raising them up caused the liberators to be raised with them and in looking at the stats I agree with this. Essentially the score for the tiers got moved as liberators etc were at the top of the 2 for 5 tier and needed bumped into the next.

Makes sense.

Our empires campaign will be updated in july to change over to whatever the "official points" are.

The change over should be minor and not affect the rest of the campaign packet.