Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

SemperMortis wrote:
they do have self repair though

It repairs only immobalised and it's on a 6. It's a useless skill that gives it no survivability like you seem to be implying.

The Trukk's Ramshackle is *far* better, allowing every penetrating hit a small chance to go down to a glancing.

SemperMortis wrote:
ohh and did I mention that its a skimmer so its fast

Trukks are fast too.

SemperMortis wrote:
caused 50% casualties to the guys inside?

Boyz are 6 points a pop. Marines are 14. You can't seriously expect them to have the same survivability to the same kind of blow? Do you expect them to survive as much when they get shot as well?
So they die easy. Get more!

And marines would *never* complain open topped made their tin cans less survivable. The absolutely sick buff of getting to charge out of the tin can would make them more than willing to make it open topped. I saw what you wrote, you don't need to quote it up again. It was dumb the first time, and it stays dumb. And this is, as you describe it, for a "shooty army." And they would STILL celebrate the change.

If you got the much more expensive transports of the DE, then you would be transporting gak in pearl wagons. That would be HORRIBLE for you. You want WORSE wagons. You want a wagon that is so gak it drops hull points when it drives, but costs 5 points. You want to mass more crap that you barely have to pay for to get your tide where it is going (or as much of it as you can.) The last thing you want is high quality that you have to pay for. That just makes your army smaller.

I'm not saying Orks are balanced. Hell, they need help in a big way. They got 99 problems but Trukks being bad aint one.

use forgeworld warkoptas instead

It'd be much better for all if we do not call other users "dumb".

Insults are not going to produce a better discussion.

Thank you.

 Purifier wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
they do have self repair though

It repairs only immobalised and it's on a 6. It's a useless skill that gives it no survivability like you seem to be implying.

The Trukk's Ramshackle is *far* better, allowing every penetrating hit a small chance to go down to a glancing.

SemperMortis wrote:
ohh and did I mention that its a skimmer so its fast

Trukks are fast too.

SemperMortis wrote:
caused 50% casualties to the guys inside?

Boyz are 6 points a pop. Marines are 14. You can't seriously expect them to have the same survivability to the same kind of blow? Do you expect them to survive as much when they get shot as well?
So they die easy. Get more!

And marines would *never* complain open topped made their tin cans less survivable. The absolutely sick buff of getting to charge out of the tin can would make them more than willing to make it open topped. I saw what you wrote, you don't need to quote it up again. It was dumb the first time, and it stays dumb. And this is, as you describe it, for a "shooty army." And they would STILL celebrate the change.

If you got the much more expensive transports of the DE, then you would be transporting gak in pearl wagons. That would be HORRIBLE for you. You want SHITTIER wagons. You want a wagon that is so gak it drops hull points when it drives, but costs 5 points. You want to mass more crap that you barely have to pay for to get your tide where it is going (or as much of it as you can.) The last thing you want is high quality that you have to pay for. That just makes your army smaller.

I'm not saying Orks are balanced. Hell, they need help in a big way. They got 99 problems but Trukks being bad aint one.

6 trukks in an army, thats 54 boyz with 6 nobz with power klaws. Thats 750pts. Against any army that can field rapid firing weapons of S5 or better or weapons with AP2 or AP1 this is 750pts wasted. Your average army can blow up, not just wreck 1-2 trukkz a turn with out to much problems. Thats 250pts gone because even if the unit passes the morale test afterwards they are going to be next to useless with so few models, probably dying to over-watch alone.

if trukkz were at least given a jink save similar to the one that Warbikes used to get in the last codex they would be significantly better. Hell if they had kept the old Ramshackle rules.

I am sorry that you have some problems against Orks and Trukkz but your probably the only one who does.

SemperMortis wrote:
6 trukks in an army, thats 54 boyz with 6 nobz with power klaws. Thats 750pts. Against any army that can field rapid firing weapons of S5 or better or weapons with AP2 or AP1 this is 750pts wasted. Your average army can blow up, not just wreck 1-2 trukkz a turn with out to much problems. Thats 250pts gone because even if the unit passes the morale test afterwards they are going to be next to useless with so few models, probably dying to over-watch alone.

if trukkz were at least given a jink save similar to the one that Warbikes used to get in the last codex they would be significantly better. Hell if they had kept the old Ramshackle rules.

I am sorry that you have some problems against Orks and Trukkz but your probably the only one who does.

S5 weapons are not going to blow up 6 trukks. They're going to wreck them. If even one blows up to S5 weapons, that's a statistical anomaly. They will penetrate on 6's, then you can Ramshackle it on a 6 and then they have to roll a 6 to blow it up. Chances of it glancing out before then are very high.

I don't have problems with Trukks, but you seem to. They are exactly what you need. Cheap, fast and allows for assault and as a bonus you can even buy a 2" longer assault! The Orks problem is that even if they do deliver their boyz they are hardly gonna do anything.

Again, Ork Trukks are not cheap, for 30 points your only able to carry 12 models which in an Ork army means only speshulists and extremely small units of boyz. On top of that AP2 has a 1/3 chance to explode it, AP1 has a 1/2 chance to explode it and AP- has a 1/6 chance to explode it. And as you pointed out it is far more likely to be glanced to death. Hell a Tac unit firing standard load out of Missile Launcher and 9 bolters has a good chance of wrecking it or exploding it. Throw in a plasma Gun and the chances just went way up.

So even if your lucky and instead of blowing up the trukk gets wrecked your still having to roll for morale and your still stuck with a small unit of boyz or speshulists who now have to foot slog, and most of these guys have 6+ armor meaning that unit is dead for all intents and purposes.

Again if they kept the old ramshackle or gave trukks the ability to jink or throw up dust clouds like the old bike rules it would be worth it. As it stands its not much better then foot slogging up the board unless you spam the hell out of trukkz.

I've been fielding Trukks pretty successfully. I think I've only had one blown up in turn one in one or two games.

Then again, I play on tables with a fair amount of BLOS terrain on them.

SemperMortis wrote:
Again, Ork Trukks are not cheap

Man, I can't think of anyone but an Ork player that would say "30 points isn't cheap." Is there actually a cheaper vehicle in the game? I'm sure there must be something, but I'm hard pressed to find it.

That said, I do agree that Orks have problems, but I don't see the Trukk as being the problem. A Formation that gave free trukks would be sweet in my opinion though, I love seeing green tides and I love the idea of them hooting and hollering up the field in cruddy machines, half blowing up on the way.

If you can get a 200 point unit of missile launchers to focus a 30+72 point unit, then that means you've got another trukk rolling up on that missile launcher unit, and you just won that trade. Well, you would have if Boyz hadn't been so terrible that they might actually lose the charge on 5 missile TAC marines. How does any Ork have S3?

 Icculus wrote:
The Battlewagon with the guitar playing Ork on the front should act as a tank with a KFF mounted on it. Anyone within earshot of the music gets the Invuln save.

Mekboy Junka with Mekboy Kustom Force Field.

And vehicle mounted Shokk Attack Gun for power chords.

 Purifier wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
Again, Ork Trukks are not cheap

Man, I can't think of anyone but an Ork player that would say "30 points isn't cheap." Is there actually a cheaper vehicle in the game? I'm sure there must be something, but I'm hard pressed to find it.

That said, I do agree that Orks have problems, but I don't see the Trukk as being the problem. A Formation that gave free trukks would be sweet in my opinion though, I love seeing green tides and I love the idea of them hooting and hollering up the field in cruddy machines, half blowing up on the way.

If you can get a 200 point unit of missile launchers to focus a 30+72 point unit, then that means you've got another trukk rolling up on that missile launcher unit, and you just won that trade. Well, you would have if Boyz hadn't been so terrible that they might actually lose the charge on 5 missile TAC marines. How does any Ork have S3?

Well for starters aren't 5 Devestators (4 MLs and a Sergeant) only like 130pts? about the same cost as a 10 man unit of Orks with a nob/pk which runs 130 when you give them a trukk and a ram?

And 4 MLs will destroy a trukk every turn, So that unit just made its money back and if they were lucky and rolled a 6 to pen they might obliterate half the boys inside.

You just said it best yourself "I love seeing green tides and I love the idea of the hooting and hollering up the field in cruddy machines, half blowing up on the way"

In essence your saying its perfectly fine for an Ork player to lose half his forces before he gets to where he needs to be going because its orky and fun. While I agree, this is a Table Top game, and every once in awhile I like winning and not having to show up to the table knowing I am at a disadvantage.

And why do I say trukks are expensive? Because for what little they do THEY ARE! They cost more then a bloody rhino and yet if they are lucky the most they will do in a game is drop off a squad of boys and thats it, game over.

Trukks are awesome. They really are a great unit. They are only like 35 points with the necessary upgrade and can carry what needs to be carried.

Sure one of your units may be able to blow up one trukk in a turn, but in a trukk army, there are far more than one trukks. And you only get one turn to blow them all up before the whole ork army is on your doorstep. So in a 6 trukk army, go ahead and blow up one or maybe two trukks, thats fine. those 2 units will sit back on objectives. The other 4 or 5 will then be in your deployment zone. or already emptied with the orks ready to charge.

 Icculus wrote:
Trukks are awesome. They really are a great unit. They are only like 35 points with the necessary upgrade and can carry what needs to be carried.

Sure one of your units may be able to blow up one trukk in a turn, but in a trukk army, there are far more than one trukks. And you only get one turn to blow them all up before the whole ork army is on your doorstep. So in a 6 trukk army, go ahead and blow up one or maybe two trukks, thats fine. those 2 units will sit back on objectives. The other 4 or 5 will then be in your deployment zone. or already emptied with the orks ready to charge.

Let me end this debate right now then. When was the last time an Ork player who did well in a large tournament used a trukk? Im talking LVO and such not local stuff

SemperMortis wrote:

 Icculus wrote:
Trukks are awesome. They really are a great unit. They are only like 35 points with the necessary upgrade and can carry what needs to be carried.

Sure one of your units may be able to blow up one trukk in a turn, but in a trukk army, there are far more than one trukks. And you only get one turn to blow them all up before the whole ork army is on your doorstep. So in a 6 trukk army, go ahead and blow up one or maybe two trukks, thats fine. those 2 units will sit back on objectives. The other 4 or 5 will then be in your deployment zone. or already emptied with the orks ready to charge.

Let me end this debate right now then. When was the last time an Ork player who did well in a large tournament used a trukk? Im talking LVO and such not local stuff

So by that rationale, every unit that was not part of an LVO winning list is garbage?

 Icculus wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

 Icculus wrote:
Trukks are awesome. They really are a great unit. They are only like 35 points with the necessary upgrade and can carry what needs to be carried.

Sure one of your units may be able to blow up one trukk in a turn, but in a trukk army, there are far more than one trukks. And you only get one turn to blow them all up before the whole ork army is on your doorstep. So in a 6 trukk army, go ahead and blow up one or maybe two trukks, thats fine. those 2 units will sit back on objectives. The other 4 or 5 will then be in your deployment zone. or already emptied with the orks ready to charge.

Let me end this debate right now then. When was the last time an Ork player who did well in a large tournament used a trukk? Im talking LVO and such not local stuff

So by that rationale, every unit that was not part of an LVO winning list is garbage?

Any unit that hasn't been a part of an Ork LVO or similar style tournament list in the recent past, yes that would be a bad unit, or at least under powered. Instead of Trukks most Ork players are using the forgeworld transport that has more armor and better guns for a slight bump in price.

SemperMortis wrote:
Because for what little they do THEY ARE!

No, they're not. For what they are capable of they are perfect. The problem is the rest of the army.

And yes, I think it's perfectly fine for half the army to die on their way. That's the whole playstyle of the Orks. When Orks have worked, it has always been that half the army dies on the way, but the other half is capable of taking on the shooting armies in close combat (and if you aren't a shooting army then most of the Orks get into combat and are often too numerous to handle)

That's the playstyle the army is known for!

You have this twisted idea that you should have twice as many models as your opponent and they should all be able to survive 100% until they get into combat against people trying to shoot them out.
That isn't balance, you just want your cake and you want to eat it too.

A guy at my club runs a bunch of trukks.

My big daemons can flickering fire a trukk to death and assault the guys who fall out (they usually get wiped in a sweeping advance). Which is nice.
While I'm doing this and avoiding the S10 here and there, all my pink horrors are dead, because they have been charged or flamed to death. My screamers popped one trukk and died to the guys inside or are really busy trying not to die too.
So I have 3 models (big ones, but still 1 model) and some summoned stuff (portalglyph, the daemon factory is long dead) to try get objectives with. The ork player still has a few fast, objective secured and low priority units all over the table.

So yes I think it works, trukks make orks much better at orkking. Not ONLY trukks though, you need a few things that are more threatening (i.e higher priority targets). Also try keeping one or two trukks alive, fast objective secured is great in the late game.

 Purifier wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
Because for what little they do THEY ARE!

No, they're not. For what they are capable of they are perfect. The problem is the rest of the army.

And yes, I think it's perfectly fine for half the army to die on their way. That's the whole playstyle of the Orks. When Orks have worked, it has always been that half the army dies on the way, but the other half is capable of taking on the shooting armies in close combat (and if you aren't a shooting army then most of the Orks get into combat and are often too numerous to handle)

That's the playstyle the army is known for!

You have this twisted idea that you should have twice as many models as your opponent and they should all be able to survive 100% until they get into combat against people trying to shoot them out.
That isn't balance, you just want your cake and you want to eat it too.

Except that in the current game, losing 1/2 of your army before they even get across the board means you probably lost already, its an all or nothing strategy. In most games your opponent isn't going to let you cross the board and assault turn 2 if he can help it so if you started with 6 trukks and lose 3, those 3 have a chance of failing probably 1 charge, so unless your lucky your only going to kill 2 units.

Does it work? yeah against some armies it can work, but as a general strategy it won't even come close to getting you to the top performing armies, IE Tau, Eldar, SM, Necrons, DA, Hell even IG can handle a Trukk Spam.

if they wanted to be competitive with the rest of the current game they would need a 4+ cover save or some kind of rule where they got to ignore Explosion results or at least go back to last edition where explosions only counted as S3 against occupants in open topped vehicles.

Trukks aren't bad in concept, but they're so heavily unfavored by the current meta they're basically defunct.

Trukks are basically meant to counter low shot high strength/ap weaponry because (historically) they had defenses against explosions (old ramshackle) and they could protect their occupants against small arms fire, while against high quality fire they were of such low quality, the returns you would get by firing a lascannon team at just one trukk was so low that it wouldn't matter if they blew up.

The current meta of extremely fast units (nullifying the speed advantage of the trukk) with extremely reliable firepower (often exploding the trukk just due to how many pens they get with their mass S6) and added bonuses for free just for being a shooting unit facing an assault unit (overwatch, JSJ rules everywhere, BS like the "no escape" rule) just means trukks don't do what they used to do.

It is more effective if you want to run MSU orks to simply run a ghaz detachment for the fearless and run minimum footslogging boyz squads running at the enemy.

SemperMortis wrote:

 slip wrote:
Frankly the Trukk is the second best transport in the game, after the drop pod. It's crazy cheap, goes real fast, has tons of customization options, has a very high troop capacity, allows disembarking & assault, every embarked model can fire, comes with a free rokkit, get a free cover save if they move fast (they will), and the ramshackle special rule. The only drawbacks are AV10 and +1 on the pen table.

For 30 points that's a heck of a deal.

False in many aspects.

1: The Trukk does not have "Tons of Customization options" they have lots of options, but most are absolutely USELESS. Stickbomb throwers, Red Paint and those things you never see. The only options a trukk ever takes is a Ram and occasionally boarding planks....thats it.

2: The trukk does have a HIGH troop capacity for most armies, For orks? not so much. Max SM Squad = 10, Rhino Capacity = 10 . Max Ork Squad = 30, Trukk Capacity = 12. Not so good.

3: The Free rokkit is still a BS2 rokkit meaning in a 6 turn game it should hit 2 times.

4: Trukkz do not get a "Free Cover Save" your thinking of bikes, The trukks do not benefit from this rule

5: Ramshackle got NERFED, it used to be a fun rule and helped the orks out sometimes, now it just sucks. on a 6+ a Pen gets turned into a Glance.

6: The only drawbacks are that these things explode to a stiff breeze and when they do they kill most of the boyz inside unless they are Meganob.

Sorry I just couldn't let that stand. Trukkz are certainly not the "Second Best" anything in the game. They are to easy to blow up, they are to expensive for what they do.

A SM Drop Pod is an open topped vehicle that allows you to deep strike, has better armor and BS4 and I believe its not anymore expensive then a Trukk with a ram. A Rhino is cheaper and has better armor as well as BS4, downside is that it doesn't allow you to assault from it. But then again if you made a rhino open topped SM players would complain that it wasn't survivable enough.

1- So you don't actually disagree with me. Okay.

2- So you don't actually disagree with me. Okay.

3- 2 free rokkit hits. Doesn't disagree with anything I said.

4- They can benefit from a KFF but that's extra points.

5- Were you the same guy talking up rhino's repair roll later? lol

6- Statiscally, that will kill four, which is less than 50%, which is not most.

Rhino's are not cheaper. Not the GK one that I have the book for a least. It's almost twice the cost. I already mentioned the drop pod so I don't know why you brought it up, except to agree with me more?

There sure were a lot of things you couldn't let stand that you didn't actually disagree with!

the_scotsman wrote:
Trukks aren't bad in concept, but they're so heavily unfavored by the current meta they're basically defunct.

Trukks are basically meant to counter low shot high strength/ap weaponry because (historically) they had defenses against explosions (old ramshackle) and they could protect their occupants against small arms fire, while against high quality fire they were of such low quality, the returns you would get by firing a lascannon team at just one trukk was so low that it wouldn't matter if they blew up.

The current meta of extremely fast units (nullifying the speed advantage of the trukk) with extremely reliable firepower (often exploding the trukk just due to how many pens they get with their mass S6) and added bonuses for free just for being a shooting unit facing an assault unit (overwatch, JSJ rules everywhere, BS like the "no escape" rule) just means trukks don't do what they used to do.

It is more effective if you want to run MSU orks to simply run a ghaz detachment for the fearless and run minimum footslogging boyz squads running at the enemy.

Exactly, everything about the Ork Trukk has been nerfed into oblivion and the point cost for trukks has remained the same.

NO escape: Flamers can now kill units inside Open topped vehicles, ruining half the point of Trukks (defense from small arms/flamers/blast weapons)
Ramshackle: Went from protecting the trukk from exploding to giving the Trukk a 6+ to minimize a Pen to a glance.
Explosions: used to be S3 hits and is now S4
Plethora of mid-high strength High Rate of Fire weapons



Automatically Appended Next Post:

SemperMortis wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Trukks aren't bad in concept, but they're so heavily unfavored by the current meta they're basically defunct.

Trukks are basically meant to counter low shot high strength/ap weaponry because (historically) they had defenses against explosions (old ramshackle) and they could protect their occupants against small arms fire, while against high quality fire they were of such low quality, the returns you would get by firing a lascannon team at just one trukk was so low that it wouldn't matter if they blew up.

The current meta of extremely fast units (nullifying the speed advantage of the trukk) with extremely reliable firepower (often exploding the trukk just due to how many pens they get with their mass S6) and added bonuses for free just for being a shooting unit facing an assault unit (overwatch, JSJ rules everywhere, BS like the "no escape" rule) just means trukks don't do what they used to do.

It is more effective if you want to run MSU orks to simply run a ghaz detachment for the fearless and run minimum footslogging boyz squads running at the enemy.

Exactly, everything about the Ork Trukk has been nerfed into oblivion and the point cost for trukks has remained the same.

NO escape: Flamers can now kill units inside Open topped vehicles, ruining half the point of Trukks (defense from small arms/flamers/blast weapons)
Ramshackle: Went from protecting the trukk from exploding to giving the Trukk a 6+ to minimize a Pen to a glance.
Explosions: used to be S3 hits and is now S4
Plethora of mid-high strength High Rate of Fire weapons

1- So you don't actually disagree with me. Okay.

2- So you don't actually disagree with me. Okay.

3- 2 free rokkit hits. Doesn't disagree with anything I said.

4- They can benefit from a KFF but that's extra points.

5- Were you the same guy talking up rhino's repair roll later? lol

6- Statiscally, that will kill four, which is less than 50%, which is not most.

Rhino's are not cheaper. Not the GK one that I have the book for a least. It's almost twice the cost. I already mentioned the drop pod so I don't know why you brought it up, except to agree with me more?

There sure were a lot of things you couldn't let stand that you didn't actually disagree with!

1: yeah I Disagree, there is realistically only 1 option that is ever taken, a Ram, everything else is either completely useless or horrible
2: Yeah I disagree with you, Trukks do NOT have a high troop capacity for an ork army. probably a good thing because that would mean more boy die in the silly thing when it explodes.
3: Strongly disagree, the rokkit is a 5pt upgrade for units, so its factored into the cost of how crappy the trukk is, if I could get rid of it and save 5pts I would.
4: Well a KFF is a bit more, 50pts for the actual KFF, 35pts for the model to carry it. So 85pt upgrade to give the trukk a 5++ against shooting. btw the trukk has to either be within 6in of the model carrying the KFF or has to be actually carrying the model, but if he carries the model then the KFF only benefits that one trukk, conversely you could put the Big Mek KFF on a bike but thats another 25pt upgrade and your going to have to field a biker unit to go with him otherwise he will get picked off.
So in conclusion, strongly disagree with the idea of a 5++ being feasible
5: Difference? Ohh yeah Ramshackle used to be good and was nerfed but trukks didn't go down in price.
6: Statistically a trukk filled with 11 boyz and a nob that explodes will suffer 6 wounds and 5 dead which is 5/12th or the next best thing to 50% and of course after suffering that many losses they need to take a pinning test and a morale test and probably 1-2 mob rules so theres another handful of dead orks so now that unit is below 50%.

Ghestrr wrote:
I'm thinking of building a trukk based ork army, similar to mad max plus it would work to get everyone to the enemy as fast as possible to engage in assault. But I hear that trukks are not too reliable, is it a good idea or not, if so what would be with it, if not what alternative would work

I'm actually doing a very similar idea as well. I'm thinking of flanking with bikes and trakks though to outflank while the boyz in trukks get dug in after assaulting.

 IronMaster wrote:

Ghestrr wrote:
I'm thinking of building a trukk based ork army, similar to mad max plus it would work to get everyone to the enemy as fast as possible to engage in assault. But I hear that trukks are not too reliable, is it a good idea or not, if so what would be with it, if not what alternative would work

I'm actually doing a very similar idea as well. I'm thinking of flanking with bikes and trakks though to outflank while the boyz in trukks get dug in after assaulting.

Fluff wise its a good looking army and lots of fun, game play wise it's not that competitive, also not sure if you mean bikes literally outflanking or if you meant they would deploy on the sides of the trukkz, but Warbikers do not have outflank special rule.

SemperMortis wrote:

1: yeah I Disagree, there is realistically only 1 option that is ever taken, a Ram, everything else is either completely useless or horrible

I was never talking competitively. That's something you invented whole cloth. Many people have fun with wrecking balls.

2: Yeah I disagree with you, Trukks do NOT have a high troop capacity for an ork army. probably a good thing because that would mean more boy die in the silly thing when it explodes.

But you couldn't name a dedicated transport that carries more. The chimera carries an identical amount of IG, who are even more worthless and prone to dying. You've invented a qualifier here again which is what you really disagree with but I never actually said.

3: Strongly disagree, the rokkit is a 5pt upgrade for units, so its factored into the cost of how crappy the trukk is, if I could get rid of it and save 5pts I would.

The trukk is the 2nd cheapest transport in the game. The cheapest isn't even allowed to move by rule and is 5 points cheaper. The trukk itself is basically a warbuggy with the highest capacity of dedicated transports in the game.

4: Well a KFF is a bit more, 50pts for the actual KFF, 35pts for the model to carry it. So 85pt upgrade to give the trukk a 5++ against shooting. btw the trukk has to either be within 6in of the model carrying the KFF or has to be actually carrying the model, but if he carries the model then the KFF only benefits that one trukk, conversely you could put the Big Mek KFF on a bike but thats another 25pt upgrade and your going to have to field a biker unit to go with him otherwise he will get picked off.
So in conclusion, strongly disagree with the idea of a 5++ being feasible

KFF on a bike is a common enough tactic. "It's feasible" as far as anything is feasible in an ork list.You seem to have more of an issue with the codex being uncompetitive as a whole, which is where most of your arguments are stemming from. I've never said the orks were competitive as a whole, but even if I did, this does not relate the the analysis of a single model in the list itself.

5: Difference? Ohh yeah Ramshackle used to be good and was nerfed but trukks didn't go down in price.

It's still miles better than the rhino repair. The rhino loses a turn of mobility even with a successful repair but the trukk ignores all explodes/ weapon destroyed/ immobilized/ shaken/ stunned results and can act normally next turn.

6: Statistically a trukk filled with 11 boyz and a nob that explodes will suffer 6 wounds and 5 dead which is 5/12th or the next best thing to 50% and of course after suffering that many losses they need to take a pinning test and a morale test and probably 1-2 mob rules so theres another handful of dead orks so now that unit is below 50%.

You've added two model from the base number of boyz (which is the vast majority of builds because the boyz are a meat shield for the nob in every list from fluffy to attempting to be competitive) to bump up the math and it still doesn't classify as a "majority".For somebody who took issue with the difference between "a ton of options" and "a lot of options" you are massively inconsistent in your stances of what's "acceptable" which appear to range wildly in whatever way allows you to be the most indignant.

Ork boyz are bad. This does not reflect on the trukk individually. I've never argued that the boyz were good and most of the issues you've raised are either about the boyz and not the trukk or based on faulty math by your own admission.

A guy at my local gaming group runs a mad max style list. He made it so his battle wagon has a portable ipod docking station in it. With giant speakers. It's awesome.

I wrote a list a little while ago based around maximising the number of Ork vehicles that you could put on the table.

In a single CAD, at 2.5kpts, it was fielding 52 vehicles.

It matters not if your vehicles die to heavy bolters, they can't possibly get through that many vehicles

Here it is if you're interested -
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/681309.page

The only way to run orks is to mitigate mob rule rolls with list building... period.

Slip, 12-10 is the standard transport capacity of most transports in the game.

Rhino 10
Chimera 12
Wave Serp 12
Raider 10
Drop Pod 10
Trukk 12
Devilfish 12
Taurox 10

Transports with the 5-6 capacity range (venom, starweaver, falcon, razorback, Taurox prime) are primarily tanks with a flex-role as a transport for a couple troops.

There is nothing exceptional about a trukk's capacity. Minus the Land Raider and other similar super-size transports, most basic transports in the game have the same capacity.

Rhinos are a base of 35 points. It is probable you are looking at a razorback if you think they cost twice as much? Rhinos and trukks are very close to identical stat-wise, and there's very good reason people don't usually actually take rhinos these days, instead favoring razorbacks (and then usually only when the point cost of said razorback is...zero.)

That's because light tank style transports without a jink save upping their durability by 50% base (chimeras rhinos tauroxen and trukks) are deeply unfavored in the current game's base rules. These rules heavily favor mid-strength weapons that can "flex" to kill light vehicles.

In 6th and 7th, a huge swathe of units gained the ability to give up firepower to increase their durability for free with the addition of Jink. Vehicles in general lost much of their invincibility with the addition of hull points. For skimmers, this presented something of a wash, and in the case of ultralight open topped skimmers like the venom, actually a benefit, as they weren't terribly durable before anyway. However for light tanks, they ate the negatives of hull points while gaining none of the positives.

Really, the only time you see armies taking light tank transports these days filled to capacity is when they literally do not have any other option for their troops. Gladius armies take razorbacks, because they're free. Guard is more frequently seen allying in drop pods so they don't have to take their awful overpriced chimeras. Sisters take their Immolators, because they're actually not bad but also because they don't have other choices, and they never put more than 5 models in a transport. Chaos marines...don't exist really, so you're never gonna see chaos rhinos.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In short, to the OP I would advise a mad max army is fine, but don't go in trying to maximise trukks. Play around with a mix of MM style elements-warbikers, warbuggies, deffcoptas, maybe a battlewagon and a couple trukks for things like MANZ missiles or maybe a small 'eavy boy squad. Building an army with a ton of trukks is possible, I would advise you to take a look at Bully Boyz if you feel like that's what you want. Fearless Meganobz are actually quite solid in trukks.

the_scotsman wrote:
Slip, 12-10 is the standard transport capacity of most transports in the game.

Rhino 10
Chimera 12
Wave Serp 12
Raider 10
Drop Pod 10
Trukk 12
Devilfish 12
Taurox 10

Transports with the 5-6 capacity range (venom, starweaver, falcon, razorback, Taurox prime) are primarily tanks with a flex-role as a transport for a couple troops.

There is nothing exceptional about a trukk's capacity. Minus the Land Raider and other similar super-size transports, most basic transports in the game have the same capacity.

Rhinos are a base of 35 points. It is probable you are looking at a razorback if you think they cost twice as much? Rhinos and trukks are very close to identical stat-wise, and there's very good reason people don't usually actually take rhinos these days, instead favoring razorbacks (and then usually only when the point cost of said razorback is...zero.)

That's because light tank style transports without a jink save upping their durability by 50% base (chimeras rhinos tauroxen and trukks) are deeply unfavored in the current game's base rules. These rules heavily favor mid-strength weapons that can "flex" to kill light vehicles.

In 6th and 7th, a huge swathe of units gained the ability to give up firepower to increase their durability for free with the addition of Jink. Vehicles in general lost much of their invincibility with the addition of hull points. For skimmers, this presented something of a wash, and in the case of ultralight open topped skimmers like the venom, actually a benefit, as they weren't terribly durable before anyway. However for light tanks, they ate the negatives of hull points while gaining none of the positives.

Really, the only time you see armies taking light tank transports these days filled to capacity is when they literally do not have any other option for their troops. Gladius armies take razorbacks, because they're free. Guard is more frequently seen allying in drop pods so they don't have to take their awful overpriced chimeras. Sisters take their Immolators, because they're actually not bad but also because they don't have other choices, and they never put more than 5 models in a transport. Chaos marines...don't exist really, so you're never gonna see chaos rhinos.

Again, this doesn't disagree with anything I said specifically, including capacity. However I was looking at razorbacks, but it still stands that the trukk is the 2nd cheapest dedicated transport of the game. Those IG drop pods are not dedicated transports.

You want to talk about how the competitive the ork list or transports as a whole are than I have no idea why you're addressing me as I've never made any claims to that effect. Maybe address someone who has?

The trukk is in fact the single cheapest dedicated transport in the game, as far as I know. It is 5 points cheaper than rhinos or drop pods.

However, ork gretchins are also the cheapest models in the game. This does not make them "a heck of a deal" as they are exceedingly low quality, and they are not even worth the 35pts you pay for 10.

"Frankly the Trukk is the second best transport in the game, after the drop pod. It's crazy cheap, goes real fast, has tons of customization options, has a very high troop capacity, allows disembarking & assault, every embarked model can fire, comes with a free rokkit, get a free cover save if they move fast (they will), and the ramshackle special rule. The only drawbacks are AV10 and +1 on the pen table.

For 30 points that's a heck of a deal."

You did not say the trukk was the second cheapest transport in the game. You said the trukk was the second BEST transport in the game. Your claims that you're not "talking competitively" go out of the window when you use the term "best" to describe something.

Best how then? Best looking? I would agree. But if you really meant best quality, and since all your arguments were based on gameplay alone I think that is what you really meant...then you are incorrect. There are a great number of better vehicles in the game with transport capacity that are higher quality than an ork trukk, despite how cheap it is.

Wave Serpents, Drop Pods, Raiders, Immolators, Night Scythes, Valkyries, Ghost Arks, Inquisition Chimeras, and Starweavers are all better at the jobs of transporting troops to where they need to be without harm than trukks are. Even the Orks have a number of better transports - Battlewagons and Gunwagons are both vastly superior to trukks.

Other transports are undoubtedly more expensive, that's true. But they also invariably transport more expensive models and do a far better job of protecting and boosting their power.

Want to get your troops where they need to go without harm? Drop pods and DE transports come with Deep strike, so unless your opponent has interceptor, they'll never harm the troops before they get to their target. Or grab a far more durable Wave Serpent/Devilfish, which is just as mobile but orders of magnitude more capable of getting fragile models where they need to go.

Want to give your troops a powerful firing platform? Dark Eldar Raiders can grab an extremely cheap upgrade to twin-link everything inside with splinter weaponry. Ghost Arks are not only open topped but come with TEN standard gauss flayers. Inquisition Chimerae let you fire 5 models out the hatch and 6 more bonus lasguns.

Also, incidentally, I hoped I didn't need to "disagree" with what you said regarding transport capacity because I'd hoped you already knew about land raiders and battlewagons (and all the other transports in the game with 12 capacity, because 12 or 10 are basically standard numbers).

the_scotsman wrote:
The trukk is in fact the single cheapest dedicated transport in the game, as far as I know. It is 5 points cheaper than rhinos or drop pods.

However, ork gretchins are also the cheapest models in the game. This does not make them "a heck of a deal" as they are exceedingly low quality, and they are not even worth the 35pts you pay for 10.

For most armies, that would be a heck of a deal, because those would be fantastic objective runners. You can have 3 of those units skittering around an objective and when one gets whiped out, just bring in the next. Exceptional! Problem is that Orks already have cheap objective runners. You don't need more.