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 jeffersonian000 wrote:

Try re-reading my post. I said you fire weapons by group at specific targets, not all weapons in a group at one target. The Baneblade example from earlier can easly have each Heavy Bolter fired at a different target, but if you are going to fire more than one at the same target, you roll for them at the same time. Another example is a Knight Paladin with it's two Heavy Stubbers. You can can shoot each one at a different target, or both at the same target. If separate, you shoot at one target before moving to the next, but if at the same target you roll for both at the same time.

Really? Because that is what this says to me:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
When following the rest of the steps, you pick one of the targets, select a weapon type, fire all of the weapons of that type at that one target that you want to fire at that target, resolve, switch to a new weapon type or move on to the next target.

The problem is that as soon as you finish resolving a Weapon Group, you cannot use it again. The Super-Heavy rules do not allow you to resolve a Weapon Group in multiple repetitive steps. All the Weapons of that Group you plan to fire must do so at the same time. Of course, they don't allow for multiple targets in their steps of resolution, either.

Oddly enough, this specific rule demonstrates just when in development the Shooting Sequence was changed (the end), and how little play testing they actually did on this specific change. Or how little they cared to get it resolved.

I gave two examples of how the rules work, yet you addressed neither.

SJ

jeffersonian000 wrote:I gave two examples of how the rules work, yet you addressed neither.

I addressed the second because that is the only one that actually matters. The first is pretty much par of the course when all of a Weapon Group is shooting one target.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
The Baneblade example from earlier can easly have each Heavy Bolter fired at a different target, but if you are going to fire more than one at the same target, you roll for them at the same time.

This is the normal situation. Both Weapons in that Group are firing at the same target.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Another example is a Knight Paladin with it's two Heavy Stubbers. You can can shoot each one at a different target, or both at the same target. If separate, you shoot at one target before moving to the next, but if at the same target you roll for both at the same time.

This is how you would deal with multiple Weapons in the same Group firing at different targets. To which I stated:

Charistoph wrote:The problem is that as soon as you finish resolving a Weapon Group, you cannot use it again. The Super-Heavy rules do not allow you to resolve a Weapon Group in multiple repetitive steps. All the Weapons of that Group you plan to fire must do so at the same time. Of course, they don't allow for multiple targets in their steps of resolution, either.

Which is why it seems like you didn't bother to read my posts, as your responses are nonsensical. Of course you cannot fire a weapon group after it's been fired, why would you think otherwise?

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Which is why it seems like you didn't bother to read my posts, as your responses are nonsensical. Of course you cannot fire a weapon group after it's been fired, why would you think otherwise?

SJ

Why would you think otherwise? You are stating to resolve the same Weapon Group multiple consecutive times and not concurrent times.

 Charistoph wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Which is why it seems like you didn't bother to read my posts, as your responses are nonsensical. Of course you cannot fire a weapon group after it's been fired, why would you think otherwise?

SJ

Why would you think otherwise? You are stating to resolve the same Weapon Group multiple consecutive times and not concurrent times.

No, I'm stating that weapons of the same type fired at the same target are the same weapon group. Weapons fired at different targets are different weapon groups.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Which is why it seems like you didn't bother to read my posts, as your responses are nonsensical. Of course you cannot fire a weapon group after it's been fired, why would you think otherwise?

SJ

Why would you think otherwise? You are stating to resolve the same Weapon Group multiple consecutive times and not concurrent times.

No, I'm stating that weapons of the same type fired at the same target are the same weapon group. Weapons fired at different targets are different weapon groups.

Except that is not how the Shooting Sequence determines Weapon Groups. They are determined by Name, not by Target. Two Heavy Stubbers would operate as one Weapon Group and so must be resolved at the same time if both are to fire, the number of targets is never stated as a determination in this for either the Shooting Sequence, Split Fire, or Super-Heavy Rules.

Without getting into crazy english major rules lawyer stuff. In my area, and every tournament I have been in, we do shooting as resolved all at the same time from one unit.

So if you had long fangs with split fire. You declare both targets then roll all the dice. With superheavies we play it where you declare all your targets before you start rolling.

The only time it ever gets muddy is tau players wanting to split fire all their markerlights, then go back and do the rest of their armies shooting. Which isn't cool. There isn't a markerlight phase of the game lol.

So this is a +1 for you cannot shoot the vehicle and the unit inside with the same superheavy. Its kind of like how you cannot shoot the vehicle, blow it up, then assault the guys who were inside, which I think is bananas.

 gwarsh41 wrote:
Its kind of like how you cannot shoot the vehicle, blow it up, then assault the guys who were inside, which I think is bananas.

Umm... You CAN Shoot the Vehicle open and Assault the guys who were inside (provided you can Charge in the first place, of course). It states this under "EFFECT OF DAMAGE ON PASSENGERS".