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nosferatu1001 wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
I think bigger than "how many guns can I shoot" is: can my unit disembark from a transport that was moved using this power? And if it's an assault vehicle, can I then charge?

How are you disembarking in the Shooting phase?
You either disembark in movement, vehicle moved, unit that go out is left behind, or you stay inside the vehicle, but then cannot disembark (barring getting wrecked...)

The Psychic Phase is not the Shooting Phase any more...

I'm aware of that. I was asking where you gain permission to disembark at any time other than the movement phase (barring wrecked)

Why talk about the Shooting Phase when you're talking about a Psychic Power then? Focus on what the Power is and does and who it affects, don't worry about the when.

Except the when is rather important when it comes to the question asked.

Here are a couple of questions:

1) Can the power be cast on a dreadnought/dreadnought squadron?

2) If so, since it is no longer the Movement Phase and coherency therefore is no longer being checked, can the power move a single Dreadnought in the squadron 18" forwards out of coherency?

3) If the Dreadnought then charges in the Assault Phase, does it count as the whole squadron charging (allowing his bretheren to make pile in moves from 18" away, slowly but surely approaching) even though they started the Assault Phase very far out of coherency?

EDIT: If it can be cast on the whole Dreadnought squadron (rather than a single 'nought), is the squadron then able to charge?

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Except the when is rather important when it comes to the question asked.

Not really. If the Power only works on Vehicles, and Disembarking is a unit action that is performed by non-Vehicles (the rare Dreadnought in a Storm Turkey being an exception, and even rarer Dreadnought in that FW Drop Pod as well), then who cares if Disembarking is normally handled in the Movement Phase.

In addition, a Psychic Power like this is a codex-level rule, which means it can override the Basic and Advanced Rules of the rulebook, like when a unit can Disembark.

This is a completely off-track tangit, but here's the quote that nos was responding to.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
I think bigger than "how many guns can I shoot" is: can my unit disembark from a transport that was moved using this power? And if it's an assault vehicle, can I then charge?

So it does matter when the power is used and when units can disembark. Because the answer to this question is NO, it's impossible to voluntarily disembark a unit after the power is cast due to the fact that disembarks happen in the movement phase which is before this power can be cast in the psychic phase.

So yes, timing is relevant to the above comment.

Zimko wrote:
This is a completely off-track tangit, but here's the quote that nos was responding to.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
I think bigger than "how many guns can I shoot" is: can my unit disembark from a transport that was moved using this power? And if it's an assault vehicle, can I then charge?

So it does matter when the power is used and when units can disembark. Because the answer to this question is NO, it's impossible to voluntarily disembark a unit after the power is cast due to the fact that disembarks happen in the movement phase which is before this power can be cast in the psychic phase.

So yes, timing is relevant to the above comment.

And you missed the point. The point is that Disembarking is not something the Vehicle does. So getting a Transport to move is useless in Disembarking a unit since it does not address the unit Embarked. Timing is pointless when you cannot even use it with the unit in the question.

Unit - what makes you think coherency is only in the movement phase?

It is any time a unit Moves. This makes a unit Move. So no, you cannot just fling one model 18" forwards. However presuming it affects a UNIt then the WHOLE squadron would move anyway!

Charistoph - the question asked was: could models disembark after the power is used. THe answer is no. Timing is important, as evinced by the questions use of "that was moved"

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Unit - what makes you think coherency is only in the movement phase?

It is any time a unit Moves. This makes a unit Move. So no, you cannot just fling one model 18" forwards. However presuming it affects a UNIt then the WHOLE squadron would move anyway!

Charistoph - the question asked was: could models disembark after the power is used. THe answer is no. Timing is important, as evinced by the questions use of "that was moved"

Correct me if I am wrong, but if a unit is out of coherency, don't they have to move as far as possible to get back into coherency. Would they also not have to run if they were out of coherency?

So, wouldn't the lone dreadnought have to run backwards while the others ran forwards? (Assuming this move is even legal, which I doubt)

 Charistoph wrote:

Zimko wrote:
This is a completely off-track tangit, but here's the quote that nos was responding to.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
I think bigger than "how many guns can I shoot" is: can my unit disembark from a transport that was moved using this power? And if it's an assault vehicle, can I then charge?

So it does matter when the power is used and when units can disembark. Because the answer to this question is NO, it's impossible to voluntarily disembark a unit after the power is cast due to the fact that disembarks happen in the movement phase which is before this power can be cast in the psychic phase.

So yes, timing is relevant to the above comment.

And you missed the point. The point is that Disembarking is not something the Vehicle does. So getting a Transport to move is useless in Disembarking a unit since it does not address the unit Embarked. Timing is pointless when you cannot even use it with the unit in the question.

We're not on the same page... let's break down his question: "can my unit (he's asking about a random unit here... not the one targeted by the power) disembark from a transport that was moved using this power? (this is the target of the power)

Since the unit (the one being transported in his question) can only disembark in the movement phase without some special rule, the answer to his question is NO, because the power can only be used to move the transport (the other subject of his question, the one being targeted by the power) in the psychic phase, which is AFTER the movement phase. So to answer his question, timing absolutely matters. Because the answer to his question could be YES if the unit could voluntarily disembark after the psychic phase.

Everything you've said is true but you're responding as if what we're saying isn't true. We're both right.

Zimko wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

Zimko wrote:
This is a completely off-track tangit, but here's the quote that nos was responding to.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
I think bigger than "how many guns can I shoot" is: can my unit disembark from a transport that was moved using this power? And if it's an assault vehicle, can I then charge?

So it does matter when the power is used and when units can disembark. Because the answer to this question is NO, it's impossible to voluntarily disembark a unit after the power is cast due to the fact that disembarks happen in the movement phase which is before this power can be cast in the psychic phase.

So yes, timing is relevant to the above comment.

And you missed the point. The point is that Disembarking is not something the Vehicle does. So getting a Transport to move is useless in Disembarking a unit since it does not address the unit Embarked. Timing is pointless when you cannot even use it with the unit in the question.

We're not on the same page... let's break down his question: "can my unit (he's asking about a random unit here... not the one targeted by the power) disembark from a transport that was moved using this power? (this is the target of the power)

Since the unit (the one being transported in his question) can only disembark in the movement phase without some special rule, the answer to his question is NO, because the power can only be used to move the transport (the other subject of his question, the one being targeted by the power) in the psychic phase, which is AFTER the movement phase. So to answer his question, timing absolutely matters. Because the answer to his question could be YES if the unit could voluntarily disembark after the psychic phase.

Everything you've said is true but you're responding as if what we're saying isn't true. We're both right.

Food for thought on this, suppose you moved a land raider with one hull point into terrain and roll a 1 for the dangerous terrain test using this power, would you then be able to charge?

Aegis1650 wrote:
Food for thought on this, suppose you moved a land raider with one hull point into terrain and roll a 1 for the dangerous terrain test using this power, would you then be able to charge?

Heh. As unlikely as this would happen, yes, I'd allow the assault in the following Assault Phase.

Unless it was an emergency disembark, although by that point youve really played the odds...

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Unless it was an emergency disembark, although by that point youve really played the odds...

That would be really interesting to see how you could do that...

Your Land Raider would have to move in to a position that had had units between 1" and 2" away on three sides of the Land Raider.

But I guess the only way you could get in to that position would be an attempt to Tank Shock. Is Tank Shock limited to the Movement Phase? None of my Marine Tanks were ever in position to do so, and none of my Necron Vehicles are built yet (toddlers in the house means slow building), so I haven't kept up with that portion of the rules.

I couldn't think of a way, but thought it worth mentioning

Scenario: you have 2 land raiders. The first was assaulted last turn and destroyed by the attackers who did not bother to move much after regrouping; just spread back by about an inch or so(partially to allow for removal of the destroyed land raider), the old land raider had been immobilized there while trying to leave some difficult terrain.

Your turn you move your other land raider with 1 hp left in a near enough position and then magneto it to where the destroyed land raider was sitting(lets assume new raider is a redeemer so you want to get it that close for flamey goodness), fail dt and get destroyed but now you vangyard vets have to emergency disembark.

Relatively plausible and explains how the perfect land raider shape of enemy units can force the emergency disembark.