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Will do! The main reason for the change is to make stealthy armored units more viable. The kids were actually who I was thinking about with the change. Let the car noted be hard to hit AND use his 3+ save.

Hive tyrants dont need a price increase. They need a base decrease. Walkrants are overcosted.

Drop ht price by 30, (cost of wings). Make wings replace a pair of scything talons.

Now flyrants loose a little dakka and use carapace swarms as their second weapon each turn and walkrants become more cost effective while bringing the full dakka might potential if equiped that way.

 Lance845 wrote:
Hive tyrants dont need a price increase. They need a base decrease. Walkrants are overcosted.

Drop ht price by 30, (cost of wings). Make wings replace a pair of scything talons.

Now flyrants loose a little dakka and use carapace swarms as their second weapon each turn and walkrants become more cost effective while bringing the full dakka might potential if equiped that way.

What about the fact that the walking hive tyrant now moves nine inches a turn and his backup is no longer god awful expensive? Or that it hits ws3 models on a 2+?

The hive tyrant is still a very good pick at this price, and make sure you look at ALL of the revised prices for different units before you make the comparison to another one. There are a LOT of changes here

A lot of more complicated changes that atempt to justify the price instsad of addressing the actual issues with the baseline unit. Flyrants are too cheap walkrants too expensive. Once the flyrant only gets 1 gun its priced appropriately at -30 points and the walkrant becomes usable. It doesnt need to move faster unless every nid is gunna move faster. Walkrants should be keeping pace with the horde not leaving it behind. Its backup being made usable is nice but a different issue that should not factor into its own cost.

Except that if I lower the baseline price of the hive tyrant I would have to increase the price of the wings. Taking a monstrous creature up to a flying monstrous creature shouldn't be a 60 point upgrade. And limiting weapons doesn't stop it from being too cheap.

Making a single upgrade flyrant 30 points cheaper than it is now is doing nothing to limit their effectiveness. You just don't spend the points on the extra gun.

Walking hive tyrants were given a point drop in 6th people immediately noticed that it still didn't help because the rules for foot based monstrous creatures still made it a bad choice. So, I went with the other option of making foot based monstrous creatures (and walkers) better overall to compensate. Primarily their inability to chase down enemies they want to kill.

A hive tyrant should be leading the charge or moving along the line to provide support where needed. Giving him an extra 3" of movement does that quite well.

Does he get slower if he has tyrant guard? Yes. But he can always leave the unit and it is a small price to pay for the additional protection given.

Also, the price for suction on the unit's support should definitely count when looking at an army like Tyranids. Their primary schtick is that the synapse creatures need to be there to keep the little one from killing themselves. When you can fit three carbides in an army for the price of two, you won't really be put off by the fact a hive tyrant is 20-30 points more expensive. The only reason you could be upset is if your army is composed primarily of hive tyrants.

Also, at -30 points wouldn't the hive tyrant be about the same price as the tyranid prime?

As i said, wings would replace a pair of scything talons. You dont need to increase the price of wings if they take up a weapon slot. It does a lot to limit their effectivness. 12 tl str 6 shots is drastically more powerful than 6. So much so that people might choose to use walkrants just to reclaim the dakka.

The prime is also over costed. The nid dex is basically just flooded with overcostedness. Get a look at raveners, the red terror, old one eye, harpys, trygons, etc etc...

There is a reason the "competative" nid lists is just flyrant spam.

But they could also just choose to not equip one of the weapons and now the flyrant with twin linked devourers is cheaper than it would have been before. It may only fire six shots, but it would be what, about 40 points cheaper?

I did look at the rest of the army. Their non-synapse units have a chance to return to the table and the vast majority of their monsters/big weapons received a significant point decrease.

The Tyranid prime gained durability and versatility with the extra wound and the option for wings to join raveners/shrikes as well.

So, unless you are wanting to spam hive tyrants, your list will have more power and survivability than the current codex would allow while actually inhibiting enemy psykers and creating a true "waves of enemies" feel.

The only reason I am not agreeing with you assessment is the idea of something that powerful and versatile for so little points will simply create a new "auto-pick" unit. The main benefit of the flyrant isn't simply wound spam, it is unloading onto the REAR armor of vehicles and destroying them with hullpoint loss. If it is cheaper but still effectively doing the job, then it returns to a must have status.


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Walking doesn't give them the same target, so nobody would really care to double up the dakka. It would be cheaper to just add the guns to a carnifex at that point.

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
But they could also just choose to not equip one of the weapons and now the flyrant with twin linked devourers is cheaper than it would have been before. It may only fire six shots, but it would be what, about 40 points cheaper?

still only 30.

I did look at the rest of the army. Their non-synapse units have a chance to return to the table and the vast majority of their monsters/big weapons received a significant point decrease.

The Tyranid prime gained durability and versatility with the extra wound and the option for wings to join raveners/shrikes as well.

The problem with the prime is the ease of instant death can be laid on it coupled with it's crap save. My personal idea for primes is to give it packages like a 30k consul or options for marine character to take terminator armor. You get a warrior prime, a shriek prime, or a ravenor prime (all part of he warrior genus) having it's ability to boost ws and bs for whatever type it is and the option to bring a brood of that type without taking up a foc. ravenor prime would be a beast shriek a jump etc etc.. and each having different upgrade/weapon options.

I saw what you wrote in he first post, but 1 extra wound doesn't actually help the prime do what it should be doing and probably wont get it to survive any longer.

The only reason I am not agreeing with you assessment is the idea of something that powerful and versatile for so little points will simply create a new "auto-pick" unit. The main benefit of the flyrant isn't simply wound spam, it is unloading onto the REAR armor of vehicles and destroying them with hullpoint loss. If it is cheaper but still effectively doing the job, then it returns to a must have status.

I agree with this. flrants need to betaken down a small notch. not nerfed into uselessness. The rest of the dex needs to be brought up.But vehicle destruction is not their primary reason for being the auto take they are now. It's volume of shot vs any target

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Walking doesn't give them the same target, so nobody would really care to double up the dakka. It would be cheaper to just add the guns to a carnifex at that point.

except for the lack of synapse, or alternatively, bring on the primes.

Isn't the prime toughness 5? There is a significant drop in strength 10 with my change to modifying stats (in particular, thunderwolf cavalry)

I meant cheaper than the twin dakka flyrant. Since you can charge on the turn you change flight modes the flyrant has the potential for serious melee damage. Making the wings replace the scything talons does nothing to change its melee effectiveness. So, just increase the points to where the weapons, stats, and overall utility line up with everything else in the game.

The hive tyrant has three abilities that most monsters don't. Shadows in the warp, synapse, and mastery level 2.

For shadows and synapse, I charge 20 points. It increases their leadership to 10, (about 6 points) fearless (5 points) area of effect fearless (another 5) and the anti psykers bubble for the rest since it can change a lot or do nothing depending on the opponent. I charged nids 5 points less per mastery level because of their singular psychic tree as well. So the points are consistent and ( I feel) fair for the versatility and damage potential of the tyrant.

All I can really say is, try a game using these house rules. Find an opponent who is willing give it a go, print out your individual eratta and the actual house rules to start a d build your army from the ground up using these changes. You will see all of the options and tweaks will cause a more varied build and (hopefully) a more interesting game.

At work atm but i think a prime is still t4. Il double check when i get home.

The wings remove a weapon which drops its number of attacks. mc are already fearless for being mc. Sitw is worthless as is. Unless you are drastically changing what it does its not a anti anybody anything.

Why is the land raider more expensive, it should be 220 max, and the others progressively cheaper, for all that can use it, that or make its lascannons heavy 2, as it stands it's too expensive for no reason

So, you didn't look at the actual rule changes for Tyranids.
Sitw causes a -1 to manifest powers in addition to the leadership penalty. Also, monstrous creatures don't get fearless for free. Nowhere in the bonuses granted for monstrous creatures does it say so. (Like the riptide being overrun, for example)

Dropping one weapon set for the twin linked devourers lowers them by one attack since they start with two close combat weapons, but the second set lost does nothing to their statline because they don't need a weapon listed to fight in close combat. It is why the second set of devourers were a given because they are priced to reflect the loss of an attack, but the second set doesn't affect combat usefulness at all in melee.

Tyranid prime is toughness 5, it is normally used to absorb strength 8-9 attacks for warriors in order to spare the lesser versions instant death.


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 Formosa wrote:
Why is the land raider more expensive, it should be 220 max, and the others progressively cheaper, for all that can use it, that or make its lascannons heavy 2, as it stands it's too expensive for no reason

The house rules here mitigate a lot of what makes land raiders weak currently, (namely, haywire and grave simply deleting it) with monstrous creatures and walkers moving faster than before, delivery of heavy melee units to a point on the battlefield is a much more necessary role on the table. Combined with las anyone auto-wounding anything t5 or lower and causing instant death to bikes/thunderwolf we suddenly there are a lot more viable targets on the table.

So, while you are correct in the normal version of 40k, with the house rules I have here it is well worth the points spent